The docs suck! (rant)

[Gandalf Parker]

Those who can, do. And those who cant, teach.
Ive heard that so many times I wish I'd invented it so I could get royalties. But the flip-flop I toss back is that those who can, cant teach.

Why mention that here? Because Illwinter is a couple of guys who thought it would be fun to write a game. OK, granted, Dom2 moved into the "real" world with a marketer like Shrapnel (and the pricing) so it no longer gets the "garage business" protection that Dom1 had. But still, Ive had alot of experience in the subject and you dont want programmers/developers to write documentation. They cannot (CAN NOT) think of what needs to be known, and their answers tend to be formulas anyway. They know the game too well to document it. At best they should provide answers to someone who has experience at translating programmer to common english.

Fine. Illwinter should. Shrapnel should. We paid alot, we deserve it. But if you REALLY want it, this is my opinion of how it would best happen. Some NEW player who has aspirations of being a writer should start taking notes. What confused you? what answers did you get (that you understood)? what was funny? what seemed like a strategy tip? At the least level, web site it. At the dreamer level, sell it to Prima as a Dominions II Strategy Guide so we can all benefit from it (and help give the game the marketing boost it deserves)

Just my humble opinion

[ December 05, 2003, 19:08: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Taqwus]

It is a fair comment that the spell manual is redundant with in-game documentation (given that, unlike item descriptions, all spell descriptions can be browsed from the very start with just a couple of classes of exceptions (nation-restricted spells and holy/unholy; you can only view these descriptions once you have somebody with at least one point in all prerequisite paths).
It would have been useful for the manual to include advice on how to play the assorted nation/theme combinations, but I'm not really sure that at the time of release -- or even now -- there's that clear advice on them all.

[HJ]

Originally posted by Zen:
One school is that this is a turn based strategic game and goes back to the tabletop wargaming which had every rule in the world and forumla and dice and everything for you to do the work. It was required that you have every conceivable rule availiable and documented in order to actually play.

Although I didn't play tabletop wargames, and I disagree with the tone of the original poster, I must say I also bleong to this Category. I simply appreciate everything more the more I know about the intricacies of design. Simply more things to appreciate that way, I guess, plus you get those thoughts about "How cool this idea/solution/feature is!" and all that.

[SurvivalistMerc]

I agree, Taqwus.

For instance, it could give you a starting theme and pretender suggestion for a fairly straightforward race like Ulm and then let you go from there while conceding that this is merely one viable example. Of course, most folks will have experimented with the Demo anyway and so will have some idea of how to start.

I do find that with no unit descriptions in the manual I have to start a game with a given race, see what they really have, then make a pretender based on their strengths and weaknesses. But I don't really mind that.

And Gandalf is right...the devs shouldn't try to make a manual. But if they could get an English major who's just graduate college and never played Dominions before and yet who is interested in the game to learn it and ask questions...that would probably result in something very useful.

The manual is useful for stating the type of ammo in the towers of fortresses but, unfortunately, doesn't state how many towers there are per type of fortress. I get that information here. This is really a wonderful site.

[jaytau]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
I respect both where Zen and where jaytau are coming from.

I will have to admit that I initially found the documentation somewhat lacking and found myself wishing I could buy a hintbook for the game until I realized how helpful everyone was on this site.

If you are puzzled or stumped, jaytau, just ask your questions on this board. There are many nice folks here... (ommitted for brevity)

-SM

Okay great.. looks like i'm not the only one a little peeved at spending aprox $55 on a game and getting only a very slightly usefull doc.

As for me needing help, I acutally have been reading the fourms.. I guess I just want to play devils advocate here... especially since I see a number of threads and questions which honestly the docs should have covered.

Honestly for me, the only thing the docs were good for is describing the bless effects of magic levels and minor fort info... oh and item descripts cuz that's not discoverable too easily in the game. everything else is just filler.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Chances are very slim that there will be an official strategy guide without costing another $19.95 + $6 S&H but i can always dream.

[PvK]

I can imagine some people being disappointed with the manual. Personally, I rather like it. More explanation of mechanics and things would be nice, and perhaps better than the spell/item lists, although I do like having the spell/item lists in a book with good table of contents.

It'd be hard to know when to stop detailing things, though, as there is so much detail in the game to describe. I think you mainly just need to know how to get started, and then learning how things work is fun for many players.

There is a ton of info available on this forum and on the web, such as the Doms II walk-through pages someone did, and the Doms I pages which give still-valid summaries of the strengths and weaknesses of most of the major nations, etc.

I expect that fans would probably be best at writing a user strategy guide.

PvK

[PDF]

I agree that the docs aren't that good : 30 pages of user manual with some (basic) game workings/mechanics, then spell+item lists. No in-depth game doc, no tutorial, no advices, no unit lists, etc ...
I would have preferred to have a real detailed printed MANUAL, and some Excel or PDF files with spells, items AND units lists.