What do you think about ermor in dom2

[Jasper]

Originally posted by apoger:
It is my personal opinion that the Ermor [ashen empire/soul gate] should be Banned from multi-player. Not because they are potent, but becuase they are unfair to the players that start adjacent. Nations starting next to such Ermors are at a huge disadvantage since they are near a population "dead zone". They end up with much less resource in the world near them, not due to anything they did, but due to the bad luck of their starting position. It's such a glaring disadvantage that I'd rather not see these Ermor's in multiplay at all.

IMHO it is often an advantage to be next to Ermor. The Ashen dominion typically only hurts if you're looking at annexing Ermor's lands. As Ermor seems to be always starved for allies, in my experience it's not hard to ally with them, and work the situation to considerable advantage.

True, it sucks to be next to a Dominion 10 Ermor who just won't negotiate -- but that's not any worse than any other crazy neighbor who doesn't seem to care about winning.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
The mages are far from cheap, only 1 in 8 of the higher class will roll astral 3.

Thaumaturgs are not that expensive, which is what the original poster was referring to for use as a communicant.

All the above nations will Magic duel your Broken Empire mages to nothingess, so you either field no mages or lose them all. Unlike, say Marignon, Abysia or Midgard Vanheim who can choose to field their other (non astral) mages.

I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel.

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel.

---

After the bug fix. Before that, the one who cast Magic Duel got a +99 (or +999, absurd number in either case) bonus for him... And that is the reason for the most fear: better mages won allways. This image was formed becose you only used the spell only when you already had the better mages, and AI doesn't seem to ever cast magic duel.

And yes, I meant the Broken, not Ashen Empire. I don't know much about magic duel, I have never seen it used to fully decimate the mages of other side. And I don't know much about mages of Broken Empire, but I assumed they have a cheap mage. How expensive is the Thaumaturg Graeme Dice mentioned? What magics does he have? 1 astral 2 unholy?

[Wendigo]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Thaumaturgs are not that expensive, which is what the original poster was referring to for use as a communicant.

I thought so. Yet I do not consider them expensive as an absolute value, I consider them expensive related to their use & related to comparable mages.

Compare the cost of the following alternate communion slaves:
Thaumaturg 130, vaetti hag 55, seithkona 90, theurg communicant 50, theurg acolyte 90, starchild 85, shaman 110.

I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel. [/qb]

Yet, who would you put your money on?

In my Dom I experience the spell had always a considerable effect in battles between Astral nations. In Dom II it is weaker (ties kill both), but still strong.

It's not just the fact that Broken Empire is one of the weakest Astral nations, it's that combined with:

-The mages being expensive for the amount of 'Astral power' they can field when facing another Astral nation.
-The nation has no alternate mages nor priests, apart from the weak cultist.

Heck, Pythium could use 150 gold Astral2 Theurgs to Magic duel 340 gold Grand Thaumaturgs on equal terms....

[ January 06, 2004, 14:56: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Don't forget your Thamaturgs and Grand Thamaturgs tendancy to after getting done with your scripted spells, to only cast unholy buffing spells

That can in and of itself, make you want to shoot them.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
Heck, Pythium could use 150 gold Astral2 Theurgs to Magic duel 340 gold Grand Thaumaturgs on equal terms....

OTOH a beefed up Grand Thaumaturg (magic penetration items, communion, crystal shield, power of the spheres, whatever) can try Apostacy on this Theurg. Pretty funny when it works, and from my tests I can say a 4-slaves communion and a Spell Focus is enough to have a regular Theurg change sides ~50% of the time.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Wendigo:

Ermor [broken empire] is an excellent nation that combines very good troops with some astral and death magic. It is a very capable nation that is worth exploring. [/qb]

I'd rather play Ashen (but this is mainly personal taste, of course).

Broken Ermor looks like a weak Pythium to me: similar troops, no communicants & hydras, lose strong astral, water & air in exchange for poor astral, poor death & unholy (poor trade IMO).

Trade-offs also from their mages having unholy priestly level: they cannot reanimate & research/cast rituals at the same time.

Cheers,
Pepe [/QB][/quote]

Broken Ermor has one weakness - i.e. expansive mages.

But they have one key advantage which can compensate most shortcomings. Their Ermor cultist can reanimate ghouls. If started from the beginning of the game, their castle will be basically unbreachable. They also get one free each turn Shadow Vestal from the capital site. They're holy and ethereal. And since they're from site, you can keep getting them even under seige.

Their regular troop is almost as good as Pythium. And I don't think death is weak, at least comparing to air and water. Less flashy on the battlefield but it has a lot of goodies and summons outside. The astral/death combination is also notoriously powerful once you get to Evocation 7. Moreover, broken Ermor's ether darter is not capital-only. Given enough cash, you can sprinkle the whole battlefield with these missle of death.

Yes. It might be weaken than Pythium but I don't think that the Broken Ermor has much to complain about comparing to other nations.