Is Ghost Riders too powerful ?

[apoger]

>The iron dragon spell takes 25 earth gems. (5 times the cost)

Yes, but can be used more than once, hence you can't judge it the same way as a one shot spell like Ghost Riders.


>Flames from Afar has the possibility of doing more damage... but only if the province is JAMMED with at least 250 units and its a powerful fire mage.

A> Armies of 250+ are common in multiplayer by the time FFTS is available.

B> The benefit of FFTS goes beyond the troops. It allows you to knock out commanders/mages with those troops, which is very hard to do otherwise.


>MY POINT... is that for the cost and mage level it is way too powerful.


My point is that it shares a position of greatness along side of other incredible spells.

I understand that you used the spell to abuse the computer AI. There are plenty of ways to do that. Try using it in a real multiplayer game. You'll find that by the time players are tossing about Ghost Riders, there are already dozens of other potent and pressing things that also have to be delt with. Ghost Riders is one of those things, but is far from THE thing to worry about.

[NTJedi]

Of course I see the value of keeping units... this spell is a perfect example!

With ghost riders NONE of my units or commanders are in danger plus the enemy is guaranteed to lose lots of units and/or army for a small price. (with the rare exception that frost/fire dome is in place)

Do you have any idea of how strong of an army is required to survive an attack from these guys. Even an army of 15 trolls with 10 archers would still take big losses... especially if they retreat because of the wraith lord.


AGAIN the cost of the spell compared with the power is way too good.

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Send Horror can be more devastating, especially with some previous horrormarks.


[/QB]

This spell doesn't work... so I can't compare the two. A mage also needs both astral and blood magic to cast the spell. Looking forward to the patch tho.

Ghost rider are just undead horses. They get banished like that. Fortunately they come with a wraith.

Yes ghost riders can be banished but they are very fast and are quickly able to do damage in battle. Most provinces way in the back don't have a priest or two just sitting around. And unless that priest has at least 25 units in front of him... that priest is dead and the province is lost.


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by Apoger
Yes, but can be used more than once, hence you can't judge it the same way as a one shot spell like Ghost Riders.

Apoger... casting ghost riders 5 times will easily do more damage then the lifespan of one iron dragon unless you're storming a castle.
An Iron dragon also requires a commander which would be at risk of dying when going into battle.

[ January 07, 2004, 22:07: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
This spell doesn't work... so I can't compare the two. Looking forward to the patch tho.

Oops, Sorry!

True about the rear provinces, but there are rarely any troops there either (making the attack a temporary loss of a province). Priests and armies are often moving together.

15 trolls? Does not sound very mighty

At higher research costs armies might be larger at the time when you reach lvl 9 research. Try playing around with alternate costs a bit. It might very well improve how you feel the game should evolve.

[apoger]

>Do you have any idea of how strong of an army is required to survive an attack from these guys.


A small screen of HI, a handful of priests, one mage casting paralyze. That should handle it with minimal losses.


>Even an army of 15 trolls with 10 archers would still take big losses... especially if they retreat because of the wraith lord.


15 Trolls and 10 Archers?
That's not an army. By the time 9th level spells are in play that's a nuisance raiding force.

[Taqwus]

NTJedi --
You've never seen what an Iron Dragon can do, then, as an accessory to battlefield slaughter.
Hell, even I've had a mere Wailing Lady with marble breastplate, boots of quickness, black heart and luck talisman get over 100 kills by itself against the AI. I've equipped a Vampire Lord to the point that it routed out an army of 1600 AI units in a single battle, alone. The ability to keep, and if helpful equip, units is very handy.

[ywl]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Of course I see the value of keeping units... this spell is a perfect example!

With ghost riders NONE of my units or commanders are in danger plus the enemy is guaranteed to lose lots of units and/or army for a small price. (with the rare exception that frost/fire dome is in place)

Do you have any idea of how strong of an army is required to survive an attack from these guys. Even an army of 15 trolls with 10 archers would still take big losses... especially if they retreat because of the wraith lord.


AGAIN the cost of the spell compared with the power is way too good.

I tested and didn't find it that impressive. I cast one on an indie with 50 light or heavy infantries, no priest. All the riders got minced within ten turns. The Wraith Lord fight on and finally scared away the others but most units escaped alive.

If you cast more than one and cut off the retreating path, that will be a good use of the spell. But otherwise, one or two doesn't look impressive to me.

And Death Level 4 is *not* a low requirement. There are two items to increase death, other than the artifacts: Skull Staff (10 gems) and Skull Mask (20 gems). Skull Mask is expensive, so to use this spell in large number, you basically need access to Death 3 mage. Only two nations (regular C'tis and Ashen Ermor) have that. Even Jotun and Broken Ermor need the right random pick!