Is Ghost Riders too powerful ?

[NTJedi]

Of course I see the value of keeping units... this spell is a perfect example!

With ghost riders NONE of my units or commanders are in danger plus the enemy is guaranteed to lose lots of units and/or army for a small price. (with the rare exception that frost/fire dome is in place)

Do you have any idea of how strong of an army is required to survive an attack from these guys. Even an army of 15 trolls with 10 archers would still take big losses... especially if they retreat because of the wraith lord.


AGAIN the cost of the spell compared with the power is way too good.

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Send Horror can be more devastating, especially with some previous horrormarks.


[/QB]

This spell doesn't work... so I can't compare the two. A mage also needs both astral and blood magic to cast the spell. Looking forward to the patch tho.

Ghost rider are just undead horses. They get banished like that. Fortunately they come with a wraith.

Yes ghost riders can be banished but they are very fast and are quickly able to do damage in battle. Most provinces way in the back don't have a priest or two just sitting around. And unless that priest has at least 25 units in front of him... that priest is dead and the province is lost.


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by Apoger
Yes, but can be used more than once, hence you can't judge it the same way as a one shot spell like Ghost Riders.

Apoger... casting ghost riders 5 times will easily do more damage then the lifespan of one iron dragon unless you're storming a castle.
An Iron dragon also requires a commander which would be at risk of dying when going into battle.

[ January 07, 2004, 22:07: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
This spell doesn't work... so I can't compare the two. Looking forward to the patch tho.

Oops, Sorry!

True about the rear provinces, but there are rarely any troops there either (making the attack a temporary loss of a province). Priests and armies are often moving together.

15 trolls? Does not sound very mighty

At higher research costs armies might be larger at the time when you reach lvl 9 research. Try playing around with alternate costs a bit. It might very well improve how you feel the game should evolve.

[apoger]

>Do you have any idea of how strong of an army is required to survive an attack from these guys.


A small screen of HI, a handful of priests, one mage casting paralyze. That should handle it with minimal losses.


>Even an army of 15 trolls with 10 archers would still take big losses... especially if they retreat because of the wraith lord.


15 Trolls and 10 Archers?
That's not an army. By the time 9th level spells are in play that's a nuisance raiding force.

[Taqwus]

NTJedi --
You've never seen what an Iron Dragon can do, then, as an accessory to battlefield slaughter.
Hell, even I've had a mere Wailing Lady with marble breastplate, boots of quickness, black heart and luck talisman get over 100 kills by itself against the AI. I've equipped a Vampire Lord to the point that it routed out an army of 1600 AI units in a single battle, alone. The ability to keep, and if helpful equip, units is very handy.

[ywl]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Of course I see the value of keeping units... this spell is a perfect example!

With ghost riders NONE of my units or commanders are in danger plus the enemy is guaranteed to lose lots of units and/or army for a small price. (with the rare exception that frost/fire dome is in place)

Do you have any idea of how strong of an army is required to survive an attack from these guys. Even an army of 15 trolls with 10 archers would still take big losses... especially if they retreat because of the wraith lord.


AGAIN the cost of the spell compared with the power is way too good.

I tested and didn't find it that impressive. I cast one on an indie with 50 light or heavy infantries, no priest. All the riders got minced within ten turns. The Wraith Lord fight on and finally scared away the others but most units escaped alive.

If you cast more than one and cut off the retreating path, that will be a good use of the spell. But otherwise, one or two doesn't look impressive to me.

And Death Level 4 is *not* a low requirement. There are two items to increase death, other than the artifacts: Skull Staff (10 gems) and Skull Mask (20 gems). Skull Mask is expensive, so to use this spell in large number, you basically need access to Death 3 mage. Only two nations (regular C'tis and Ashen Ermor) have that. Even Jotun and Broken Ermor need the right random pick!

[NTJedi]

Taqwus
an Iron Dragon means you place one or more of your commanders in danger just for going into battle.
Now if you cast Ghost Riders 5 times (same cost as your Iron Dragon) it will EASILY do more damage than your one Iron Dragon and no commanders are in danger. (except for the rare case where the player has a lab and fire/frost dome casted)

15 Trolls and 10 Archers?
That's not an army. By the time 9th level spells are in play that's a nuisance raiding force.

This was an example as for a strong back province defense... of course it's not front line.

The Wraith Lord fight on and finally scared away the others but most units escaped alive.

THANK_YOU ! The point is the province is no longer protected and any enemy which owned the province is no longer collecting incoming/resources... your troops if they were set to attack now take the place without conflict unless another army was also moving to the location. Now cast the spell 5 times... your enemy just lost 5 provinces... same cost as one iron dragon. That's a good chunk of incoming and men lost... more damage then one iron dragon can do.

I've equipped a Vampire Lord to the point that...

Different spell requiring 4 death and 4 blood to cast plus 44 blood slaves. Lots more difficult and expensive to cast... thus in a completely different Category.

any troops there either (making the attack a temporary loss of a province).

The loss of a province could mean 50 gold or more for that turn... even if the spell is casted only once every turn... that adds up fast.
plus a possible loss of gem income from mg sites.
plus the player has to spend a turn for a commander and maybe an army to recover the location. Men which could/should be supporting/patrolling the front line or castle.

[ January 07, 2004, 23:56: Message edited by: NTJedi ]