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  #1  
Old January 13th, 2004, 05:52 AM

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Default Re: patch 2.06 out

This only means that you can no longer ignore one scale while reaping the rewards of another.

I don't feel this is particularly weakening, but I've never been a fan for making some ugly monstrosity of a pretender with 90% of my points into him.

Even taking a 9 Path pretender sometimes makes me cring and wonder where I'm scraping the points up from. So that's more of a personal bias and I don't fault Keir's thinking for it.

IMHO it makes for just as many options, just not as 'complete' in the mindset of some of the players (If I'm doing a blessing, I might as well go hog wild!)
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  #2  
Old January 13th, 2004, 06:03 AM

Keir Maxwell Keir Maxwell is offline
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Default Re: patch 2.06 out

Quote:
Originally posted by Zen:
Even taking a 9 Path pretender sometimes makes me cring and wonder where I'm scraping the points up from. So that's more of a personal bias and I don't fault Keir's thinking for it.
What one 9? Pah - thats nothing.

It is one of those head first things and once you get you feet wet it looks different - sorta upside down . When I find myself with really strong scales I start to worry if I'm not being a bit to cautious/old fashioned. Dom1 is dead long live dom2!

Cheers

Keir
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  #3  
Old January 13th, 2004, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: patch 2.06 out

>Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
>I haven't had a chance to look at the new features in full but I do have a few questions.

>1. Is there any plan to change the way orders work allowing some sort of fire and attack, or firing on the hold part of "hold and attack" or while not otherwise engaged on guard commander?

Plans exist.

>My concern is Tien Chi Cavalry - particularily Barbarian Kingdoms. Is it intended that at any battle you either use them as lancers of archers or is there a way of getting around this I have been unable to discover?

>Mictlan - is there any plans to improve Mictlan?

Considerations, yes.

>While I have achieved moderate success with Mictlan it was after many, many abysmal failures and was harder to achieve than dramatic success is with most other races. Part of what kept me trying was the hope that Mictlan would be patched and my cunning idea's would become more viable. If Mictlan (read Barbarian Kingdoms and Spring and Autumn) is finished as is it would be good to know so I can stop waiting and hoping.

Keep hoping

>I find it hard to celebrate the arrival of new themes when we already have alot of new themes/nations and some of them seem to be badly in need of work. I lost alot of my designs to this patch and I'm not sure that I have gained many new possibilities. My two favourite nations remain bottom dwellers who struggle to utilise their thematic advantages (the two Tien Chi themes) and dual bless effect races have been slaughtered.

Dual bless effect races slaughtered?

>Oh well I guess its time to take a break from playing anyway and put some serious work into the "War of the Rings" mod.

Good!

>Thanks for the mod capability - I do really appreciate what you given us with this.

Yore welcome
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  #4  
Old January 13th, 2004, 12:22 PM

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Default Re: patch 2.06 out

a note about the patch and the changes done or not done... I was thinking that some of the weakest themes would get a little boost. There was a good amount of discussion regarding blood of humans for example, and it was in the end rather obvious that it lacked a bit compared to standard Abysia. That just a top of my head, but Return of the Raptor comes close. Themes add fun, but should somehow be on par - power speaking - with the main theme, or they will be restricted to single players play, where optimization is not of the upmost importance.

Whats more, tweaking a theme reckoned as slightly weak can be done in a matter of seconds. If you want a quick fix for blood of humans, *while* staying on the safe side of not giving him too much power, just add 25 design points when you take it. There is absolutly no chance it comes overpowered with that (in fact it should get 50 points, as you loose one heat scale with some additional capabilities).

I hope it will makes in the second patch. Do you maintain a master list of changes?

Thanks for your time.
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  #5  
Old January 13th, 2004, 12:27 PM

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Default Re: patch 2.06 out

I think a little more disturbing would be creating themes that are drastically more powerful as opposed to the normal themes (Read: Conq of the Sea with the Royal Navigators (2 Air, 2 Astral, 1 Random) ?! and the Chartmaker Communion Slaves as opposed to normal, Fires of Faith, or Diabolic Faith Marginon)

I need more time to look at it, but I'd hope they would do more balacing towards making the themes 'evenish'

[ January 13, 2004, 10:29: Message edited by: Zen ]
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  #6  
Old January 14th, 2004, 02:28 AM
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Nagot Gick Fel Nagot Gick Fel is offline
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Default Re: patch 2.06 out

Quote:
Originally posted by Zen:
I think a little more disturbing would be creating themes that are drastically more powerful as opposed to the normal themes (Read: Conq of the Sea with the Royal Navigators (2 Air, 2 Astral, 1 Random) ?! and the Chartmaker Communion Slaves as opposed to normal, Fires of Faith, or Diabolic Faith Marginon)

I need more time to look at it, but I'd hope they would do more balacing towards making the themes 'evenish'
I need to look at it more myself, but I think that 'drastically' is a bit exagerated:

- CotS costs 25 more points

- CotS lost most of its ability to generate extra early income through alchemy

- Lost the wonderful flaming crossbows (Wind Guide is not nearly as effective, besides it's easier for the other Marignon themes to find air-1 mages to cast Wind Guide, it's much harder for CotS to find fire-2 mages for Flaming Arrows)

- Diabolical Faith has access to Mind Duel-proof communion.

- (minor point, but still) Air/astral is a bit redundant: Teleport/Cloud Trapeze on the same unit. Can't really see a synergy in air+astral. At least fire+astral gave Astral Fires.
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  #7  
Old January 13th, 2004, 09:54 PM

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Default Re: patch 2.06 out

Standard Marignon also had the infamous Knights of the Chalice, which are rather nice when etheralized (add a bless effect as the cherry on the pie). Also Astral fire is a really tough spell. All in all nothing strike me as unbalanced when you compare CotS / Marignon.

Ulm BF is really good and funny, except that the Vampire Count can be recruited too early.

What bother me more is the previous themes which were not tweaked despite hundred if not dozen of billions (what, I exagerate?) Posts about them. Desert Tombs, Blood of Humans, Return of the Raptor...
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