Explanation from D2 grognards wanted.

Vger · #1 January 15th, 2004, 12:31 AM

Hi,

Thanks everyone, especially Johan. This was on the old Version, not patched. Man could retreat, he had at least one and probably several places to go.

The battle Lasted for a long, long time, without turn numbers I can't tell, but it could well have been 50 turns. The two remaining units were not paralized, so they could have routed.

Something I don't understand from what you said, Johan. Since they were all Gifted with Reason, would they still be mindless and not be able to retreat? (Not that they SHOULD have retreated in this circumstance, but I'd rather they rout than die.)

Still bummed, but less confused,
V'ger gone

[ January 14, 2004, 22:33: Message edited by: Vger ]

johan osterman · #2 January 15th, 2004, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vger:
Hi,

Thanks everyone, especially Johan. This was on the old Version, not patched. Man could retreat, he had at least one and probably several places to go.

The battle Lasted for a long, long time, without turn numbers I can't tell, but it could well have been 50 turns. The two remaining units were not paralized, so they could have routed.

Something I don't understand from what you said, Johan. Since they were all Gifted with Reason, would they still be mindless and not be able to retreat? (Not that they SHOULD have retreated in this circumstance, but I'd rather they rout than die.)

Still bummed, but less confused,
V'ger gone

Perhaps they were fatigued to unconsciousness then? By not routing I meant that they were kept from routing in the battle rather than if there were any routing possibilities on the strategic map. There is no consideration of strategic routing possibilities in the tactic phase. The strategic rout possibilities are determined after all battles are resolved, and thus cannot enter into the tactic battle phase.

Mindless units that get the gift of reason remain mindless. Meaning that they never acquire experience are immune to soul slay etc. Golem is the only mindless unit that starts as a commander, IIRC. If you want some sort of rationale you might think of them as having some sort of artificial or soulless intelligence.

Bowlingballhead · #3 January 15th, 2004, 01:28 AM

Actually, it does sound like the 'no-retreat' clause went into effect, doesn't it? Long battle - 25 turns are taken up just killing the enemy's army. Turn 25 hits, and the sole remaining unit capable on Man's side (the militia) retreats. The iron dragons and clockwork horror cannot retreat, since they're mindless. Instead they shuffle around stupidly for another 25 turns, until the auto-death effect kicks in. The only thing that seems questionable is that there'd have to be some effect on the shambler king (slave collar, maybe?) that made him fearless.

Nagot Gick Fel · #4 January 15th, 2004, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Mindless units that get the gift of reason remain mindless. Meaning that they never acquire experience

Actually they can acquire experience. At least in Doms 1 they could. Sent a Golem in the Arena once, he came back with an heroic ability as well as the trident. Then I thought "What if I empower a Golem in astral so he can wish for fame?". Bingo - it works!

johan osterman · #5 January 15th, 2004, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:
Mindless units that get the gift of reason remain mindless. Meaning that they never acquire experience

Actually they can acquire experience. At least in Doms 1 they could. Sent a Golem in the Arena once, he came back with an heroic ability as well as the trident. Then I thought "What if I empower a Golem in astral so he can wish for fame?". Bingo - it works!

Heh. Didn't know that.