Two new MODs from me

[apoger]

>it makes the themes that require temperature changes far weaker that the default.

True. However I can't fix everything right now as the mod tools are limited. Many of the themes desperately need fixing (erm, modding).


>The other is that while DOM2 might allow a 33% income bonus with the default scales, that bonus requires you to spend 360 nation points on your scales, while order in your Version requires only 120 points.

Since you seem to feel that growth and production are so potent that you cannot do without, it wouldn't make a difference though, would it? This is exactly what I was shooting for. Difficulty in choice because every option has merit.


>The productivity scale also seems to give too large of a bonus. Currently sloth 3 lets you produce about half as many troops as prod 3. With sloth 3 under your scales you've reduced troops production to 5% of what a prod 3 nation gets. (190% vs. 10% of base resources) If there's some way to overcome that with a SC pretender, I can't see it.

A> You are comparing the most productive nation in the world to the least. I have no issue envisioning that as an extreme difference.

B> The scale had to be modified to the point that it was not obviously something you could ignore. It was my intention to make positive production very alluring and negative production very constraining.


>A death scale of 3 means that after 20 turns your capital will be reduced to 20,000 people, while the population under growth 3 will be 45,000. The resources and income boost the growth 3 nation will get when combined with a 45% boost to gold and a 90% boost to resources will be awfully hard to overcome by pretender design.


A> Growth was meant to double/half poulation in about 40 turns. I don't see that as extreme for "most growth" versus "most death". Many games are just about over in 40 turns. Without scale this potent, players would never see a significant change due to scales.

B> While very potent, you are exaggerating the power and under estimating the benefits of pretenders. Remember this boost is centered on your capital, most of your nation won't ever feel the benefits in a serious way. A magically potent pretender can help with expansion, which is also an economic boost. A magically potent pretender might have strong bless effects, which helps with expansion, which is an economic boost. A strong pretender can really pump magical research or do site hunting, which are different economies than the gold economy, but are also very potent in their own right.

You are throwing about stats without perspective. What are we really talking about? An extra 100-130 gold from the capital province on turn 40? The ability to generate 4-6 extra heavy infanty at the capital on turn 40? Do you really think that this mighty bonus will stop you from taking any magic on you god?


>However, it seems fairly obvious that the most efficient way to spend your points are on order 3, prod 3, growth 3

However, it seems fairly obvious that some players should actually play the mod before wasting everyones time with post after post of conjecture.


>You'd have to seriously improve the pretenders,

That is actually on my list of things to do.
I don't think the pretenders are particularly godlike. I'd like to see more power on them, particularly of the magic sort. However the current mod tools aren't quite ready for pretender work. As soon as Illwinter releases better tools, I'll do much pretender work.


>will have a very hard time overcoming the massive economies that can be produced in short order under your systen.

Or without the exaggeration: sligtly stronger economies that can be produced over the length of the game.

You seem to be putting an extrordinary amount of effort into complaining about a mod that you don't like, and have never played.

[Pocus]

I wont play too, as of now, with these scales. Not because I dont like them intrinsically, but because there is a missing part in the mod, which will have to wait at least a patch: the modding of initial level of all pretenders.

I too would like to see scales which have a significant impact on gameplay. Hey, I have +1 productivity, look at this amazing +10% bonus in production speed. Yaaawwn. I thus concur that the changes of Apoger are ok because each scale is of importance, and has importance.

But as others pointed, the changes made unbalance the magic pretenders strategy, to the point that both Rainbow mages & blessing pretenders are unplayable, and I dont like to have less choices when I choose a pretender. So when this part too will be tweaked (thanks to a future patch), I think I will enjoy much this mod.

edited : some typos.

[ January 15, 2004, 16:49: Message edited by: Pocus ]

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Pocus:
I wont play too, as of now, with these scales.

Well, to be fair to Alex and his work, I'll give them at least a few tries (starting with a "Maenads lead the way" Pangaea), but I must say my first impression is very negative. I fear this mod will effectively restricts the choice of scales (0->+3 instead of -3->+3), and that can't be good. That reminds me too much of the no-brainer choices we were offered in Doms 1. Plus, with that high growth, I fear we might see the a comeback of the high taxes/patrol routine that was overabused in Doms 1 - with the added benefit it now gives you extra corpses to reanimate.

[Kristoffer O]

Alex's mods are now available at the illwinter site.

[apoger]

>Plus, with that high growth, I fear we might see the a comeback of the high taxes/patrol routine that was overabused in Doms 1

That's an excellent point that I did not account for. I'll do some testing with that.

[apoger]

>That's an excellent point that I did not account for. I'll do some testing with that.

That was an easy test.
Doesn't work, as the population loss easily overcomes the gains. Patrolling to supress unrest is really harsh!

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by apoger:
>That's an excellent point that I did not account for. I'll do some testing with that.

That was an easy test.
Doesn't work, as the population loss easily overcomes the gains. Patrolling to supress unrest is really harsh!

If it was that quick, I assume you checked only with 200% taxation?

I've heard (didn't checked it myself) that population losses are exponentially related to the tax rate (like, taxing at 150% you lose X pop/turn, and 4 times as much when taxing at 200%). So high taxes might still be an issue, if the 'sweet spot' isn't too low.

[Edit: typo]

[ January 15, 2004, 18:42: Message edited by: Nagot Gick Fel ]