God in the gate

Norfleet · #1 January 23rd, 2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NTJedi:
So anyone who has conquered and killed Ry'leh shouldn't be using the void gate???

That's too bad other races can't use an astral mage after killing Ry'leh.

If you used enslave mind on a Black Starspawn, you'd have your own starspawn priest to try using in the void gate.

You could also try wishing for a Starspawn priest. Although you might get the Blue mage instead of the Black priest, since the Blue Starspawn has a lower unit ID. Maybe wishing for a Stargazer instead will get you better results.

Of course, if you're going to use wish, just wish for the damn Vastness already. We know that's what you REALLY want anyway.

Chris Byler · #2 January 24th, 2004, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NTJedi:
So anyone who has conquered and killed Ry'leh shouldn't be using the void gate???

That's too bad other races can't use an astral mage after killing Ry'leh.

You can, but there's a high risk of insanity (25% per attempt, IIRC).

On the other hand, you do still gain skill for attempts you survive, so if you can cure insanity, you can make some slow progress. The Chalice, Gift of Health, Arco priestesses, Fairy Queen; park any or all of those in R'lyeh's old capitol (priestesses and the FQ will need a water breathing item of course) and keep trying with whoever got out of Arkham this month.

Probably too expensive to be worthwhile, but you can do it.

It would be nice if there was an item that decreased chance of insanity in the void, that other nations could forge (even if it was an artifact). Perhaps Nethgul could have this effect (serving as a guide for its owner)? Anyone who conquered R'lyeh should have no problem coming up with the gems to forge it...

Returning/Ritual of Returning can protect you from being attacked by void monsters (as can bodyguards, less effectively), but they can't protect you from going insane.

Saber Cherry · #3 January 24th, 2004, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
On the other hand, you do still gain skill for attempts you survive, so if you can cure insanity, you can make some slow progress. The Chalice, Gift of Health, Arco priestesses, Fairy Queen; park any or all of those in R'lyeh's old capitol (priestesses and the FQ will need a water breathing item of course) and keep trying with whoever got out of Arkham this month.

Or most obviously, empower a Recuperating leader in astral... and give it shambler skin armor, of course... 50 pearls, 5 water gems for the ultimate summoner? Not bad...

Chris Byler · #4 January 24th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Byler:
On the other hand, you do still gain skill for attempts you survive, so if you can cure insanity, you can make some slow progress. The Chalice, Gift of Health, Arco priestesses, Fairy Queen; park any or all of those in R'lyeh's old capitol (priestesses and the FQ will need a water breathing item of course) and keep trying with whoever got out of Arkham this month.

Or most obviously, empower a Recuperating leader in astral... and give it shambler skin armor, of course... 50 pearls, 5 water gems for the ultimate summoner? Not bad...

Duh, how did I miss that one?

To bring this thread full circle, the Ancient Kraken is a recuperating leader, and can start out with Astral (if you pay for it at setup), and has no need for shambler skin armor. Although recurring insanity on your God is a bit of a steep price to pay...

What other recuperators are there that aren't national? Immortals recuperate, IIRC - maybe a Wraith Lord would make a good summoner. (Although IIRC the Void counts as neutral dominion like the Arena, so his immortality wouldn't protect him from being killed by void monsters).

Although it occurs to me - Gift of Health is only 40 nature, and it makes all your astral mages recuperate. Since recuperation can take some time, this may be a better approach than astral-empowering a natural recuperator (unless, of course, there is something that is both naturally recuperating AND has astral without needing empowerment - Pan with random in astral perhaps?)

PhilD · #5 January 25th, 2004, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:

quote:
Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Byler:
On the other hand, you do still gain skill for attempts you survive, so if you can cure insanity, you can make some slow progress. The Chalice, Gift of Health, Arco priestesses, Fairy Queen; park any or all of those in R'lyeh's old capitol (priestesses and the FQ will need a water breathing item of course) and keep trying with whoever got out of Arkham this month.

Or most obviously, empower a Recuperating leader in astral... and give it shambler skin armor, of course... 50 pearls, 5 water gems for the ultimate summoner? Not bad...
Duh, how did I miss that one?

I don't know - I only tried R'lyeh once, but I seem to remember that insanity wasn't the only danger - a significant proportion of summonners would meet something nasty in there, and not even come back with their mind fried. I don't think Recuperation would help much for that...

Norfleet · #6 January 25th, 2004, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:
I don't know - I only tried R'lyeh once, but I seem to remember that insanity wasn't the only danger - a significant proportion of summonners would meet something nasty in there, and not even come back with their mind fried. I don't think Recuperation would help much for that...

A scripted returning with a ritual of returning enchantment can do wonders to make sure your summoner comes back alive even if he gets attacked.

However, the fact of the matter is that for anyone who ISN'T R'lyeh, the only use of the Void Gate would be to get Vastnesses. Even assuming you can entirely prevent the loss of your summoner with Returning/Ritual of Returning, and he automatically heals his insanity afflictions quickly, every time he teleports back, you still have to walk him BACK to R'lyeh, which R'lyeh doesn't have to do...and the insanity rate is 5x higher: Building an army out of void critters in such a fashion isn't profitable or cost-effective. So what you REALLY want is a Vastness.

Just wish for the damn Vastness already! 100 Astrals is a lot cheaper than trying to empower somebody to do it, cast Ritual of Returning and Returning all the time, teleport back to R'lyeh....

Chris Byler · #7 January 25th, 2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:
Originally posted by PhilD:
I don't know - I only tried R'lyeh once, but I seem to remember that insanity wasn't the only danger - a significant proportion of summonners would meet something nasty in there, and not even come back with their mind fried. I don't think Recuperation would help much for that...

A scripted returning with a ritual of returning enchantment can do wonders to make sure your summoner comes back alive even if he gets attacked.

Bodyguards help too. So does Ring of Warning. So does any item that is commonly useful in/against assasination (any summoning item, Rod of the Phoenix or other 100-PREC attack items).

Quote:

However, the fact of the matter is that for anyone who ISN'T R'lyeh, the only use of the Void Gate would be to get Vastnesses. Even assuming you can entirely prevent the loss of your summoner with Returning/Ritual of Returning, and he automatically heals his insanity afflictions quickly, every time he teleports back, you still have to walk him BACK to R'lyeh, which R'lyeh doesn't have to do...and the insanity rate is 5x higher: Building an army out of void critters in such a fashion isn't profitable or cost-effective. So what you REALLY want is a Vastness.

Just wish for the damn Vastness already! 100 Astrals is a lot cheaper than trying to empower somebody to do it, cast Ritual of Returning and Returning all the time, teleport back to R'lyeh....

Astral mages don't have to walk anywhere. Assuming you have a bit of research and a couple astral pearls, that is (and if you've conquered R'lyeh, you have a couple of astral pearls). Gateway may have been moved further up the research tree, but Teleport is still where it always was.

Wish costs a lot more than 100 astral if you don't have an astral-9 god. You need several booster items (probably including the costly Rings of Sorcery and Wizardry) and possibly empowerment too. It's one thing to cast a level 9 battlefield spell (potentially with the aid of gems, empowerment, booster spells, Crystal Shield, etc.); it's quite another to cast a level 9 ritual.

Still, I have to admit that using the Void Gate as non-R'lyeh is as much a tour de force as anything else. Most of the low level void critters are only marginally worth it for R'lyeh, let alone for anyone else.