AI opponents lack of researching

NTJedi · #1 January 26th, 2004, 06:19 PM

I have played lots of games(single&multiplayer) and have noticed the AI opponents have a serious problem setting units aside for researching. In the beginning of the game the AI opponents do a good job researching... yet by middle and late game their researching never seems to increase causing them to be feeble in magic.

Hopefully something can be done in a future patch to help the researching for AI opponents .

licker · #2 January 26th, 2004, 06:24 PM

Hmm, I've not really seen this myself. Sure there are some nations that suck, but there's usually a few that are going nuts with the research. Then again I'm playing largish maps with 10+ opponents, maybe your sample is skewed if you play fewer opponents or smaller maps. High level magic probably isn't worth as much on a smaller map anyway, since the time to get to it (and have the gem economy to use it) might be too long.

Its somewhat dependant on how you like to research as well, if you are a gung ho researcher you should notice that the other nations are lacking there (but its reletive

). If you are playing Ulm (usually...) then you should notice that you arn't in front, or even in the middle.

Graeme Dice · #3 January 26th, 2004, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
If you are playing Ulm (usually...) then you should notice that you arn't in front, or even in the middle.

Default Ulm is probably one of the better nations when it comes to research. Master smiths are research 5 even in drain 3, and only cost 140 gold each. They are almost as efficient as sages in high drain areas. Ulm has no problems with gold early on, and can afford to build a master smith every turn.

ceremony · #4 January 26th, 2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
Hmm, I've not really seen this myself.

Neither have I. Usually there are a couple AI nations who really take off and force you to spend significant research resources just keeping up. In two of my current m/p games, two AI nations have really established a huge lead in research, and it's almost turn 70.

Saber Cherry · #5 January 26th, 2004, 08:37 PM

AIs always beat me in the research race unless I become very rich fast and find a library on turn 2...

Where they really fall behind is site-searching and summoning.

[ January 26, 2004, 18:37: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

licker · #6 January 26th, 2004, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by licker:
If you are playing Ulm (usually...) then you should notice that you arn't in front, or even in the middle.

Default Ulm is probably one of the better nations when it comes to research. Master smiths are research 5 even in drain 3, and only cost 140 gold each. They are almost as efficient as sages in high drain areas. Ulm has no problems with gold early on, and can afford to build a master smith every turn.

True, hense the 'usually'... still Ulm early on isn't as likely as someone else to go research crazy (at least from my experience), and their two themes don't seem research friendly at all. Normally I see Pythium and or Vanheim cranking out research, I normally am aggressive with my research as well (especially if I find a library or 2) but I'm seldom able to outpace all the AIs, and even if I do start faster at some point I am caught.

PvK · #7 January 26th, 2004, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
AIs always beat me in the research race unless I become very rich fast and find a library on turn 2...

Where they really fall behind is site-searching and summoning.

They generally beat me in reasearch unless I go nuts with research skulls. Personally I'm kinda glad they aren't any better at researching.

Edit: Oh - I just read the first post. My experience is mainly with the early game. Maybe by late game (by which you mean what turn?) they should pick it up - I wouldn't necessarily be a good judge.

They seem to site search fairly well to me - often quickly, but not always very deeply, which is kinda interesting for SP because then you still are tempted to search their territory for more toys.

It does seem like maybe they could do more summoning. I saw Tien'Chi do what seemed like a healthy amount of summoning - steamrollered my Arco with a bunch of Celestial giants or something - game over.

PvK

[ January 26, 2004, 20:09: Message edited by: PvK ]

Graeme Dice · #8 January 26th, 2004, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
True, hense the 'usually'... still Ulm early on isn't as likely as someone else to go research crazy (at least from my experience), and their two themes don't seem research friendly at all.

Ulm gets a great deal of benefit from research in Conjuration (Earthpower, fall bears, trolls), Evocation (Magma bolts, blade wind, magma eruption), Construction (dwarven hammers, earth boots, lightless lanterns, clockwork horors, crushers, iron dragons, etc.), enchantment (forge of the ancients, etc.), and thaumaturgy (earth searching spells).

NTJedi · #9 January 26th, 2004, 11:42 PM

I usually play Machaka on huge maps... maybe that's why I have such a great lead over the computer opponents, since they have the witches that give 5 research for 90 gold.

I thought I would bring up the topic because when I place 10 computer opponents on Impossible AI... one of them should be able to take the lead on research... at least once in awhile.

licker · #10 January 27th, 2004, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by licker:
True, hense the 'usually'... still Ulm early on isn't as likely as someone else to go research crazy (at least from my experience), and their two themes don't seem research friendly at all.

Ulm gets a great deal of benefit from research in Conjuration (Earthpower, fall bears, trolls), Evocation (Magma bolts, blade wind, magma eruption), Construction (dwarven hammers, earth boots, lightless lanterns, clockwork horors, crushers, iron dragons, etc.), enchantment (forge of the ancients, etc.), and thaumaturgy (earth searching spells).

To continue this tangent...

I'm not saying Ulm doesn't benefit from research, nor that Ulm (standard theme) can't research well without an early library. What I was saying was that Ulm (in particular from my experiences) doesn't research heavilly early, sure they may shoot for one of the above mentioned areas, but compared to Pythium (again in my experience) they lag in research.

Anyway, Machaka can research pretty quickly so maybe that's where you percieve the lag, though if the AIs are pulling off decently high level spells whats to complain about? There's also the difference in getting to lvls 4/5 in everything and getting to lvls2/3 in a few and lvl7+ in one area. Diffrent strokes for diffrnet folks