Ashikaga Shogunate mod v1.01

[Daynarr]

Any news about this mod? New updates or something?

It's great mod btw.

[Potatoman]

Thanks, Daynarr. Actually, v2.0 of the mod is as done as I can make it right now without improved modding tools, so I'm really just waiting for the next patch to release Version 2.

So far Version 2 allows 21 units total (7 more than v1.02) including national heroes, a national summoning tech tree of Tengu & Oni, and some extra balancing on existing units (much of it was suggested in this thread).

[Scott Hebert]

A little history lesson for people.. (not towards Potatoman, who I'm sure knows all of this)

The time period that Potatoman has based his mod on, the Sengoku Jidai (in English, the Warring States Period), Lasted for about 100 years, from the 1480s to 1600. In most people's minds, the Sengoku Jidai is even more closely associated with the Last part of that time period, with the 3 Great Unifiers of Nobunaga, Toyotomi, and Ieyasu.

Most of the suggestions you are giving Potatoman, regarding such things as the bow, mounted troops vs. unmounted troops, etc., are historically inaccurate. While it is true that in earlier times the samurai was a mounted archer (say, at the end of the Heian period where the Heike Monogatari (the Tale of the Heike) is situated, by the latter parts of the Sengoku Jidai period, the samurai was a foot soldier, much more akin to the Kurosawa film Versions. While the debate about mounts and bows is interesting, I'm afraid it doesn't really impinge on Potatoman's mod, historically.

For a good cinematic representative of Sengoku Jidai samurai, Ran is a good example. I think this is the feel, at least militarily, that Potatoman is trying to capture in his mod.

Regarding the bow specifically, it really is intereting. There is the daikyu, the asymmetric bow mainly meant to be used from horseback. That is the bow that most here have been discussing. However, there are mentions earlier of something called the o-yumi, or great bow. The funny thing is that no actual remains of it have been found. Apparently, it was a huge crossbow used as a siege engine that Japan imported from China after the Taika Reforms of 645. Basically, it sounds like a ballista to me.

Having taken 3 Japanese history courses Last quarter, and graduating with a degree in Japanese at the end of it, tends to fill your head with some of the most interesting trivia.

Bayushi Tasogare
Japanese 'Buff'

[Arralen]

One suggestion of undoubtable historically correctness:

There wasn't, and isn't, a word as "hara-kiri".
It was "invented" by americans who didn't get another word right, can't remember which one though.
It is shurely possible to google for the whole story.

Ritual self-disembodyment (sp?) was and is called "seppuku".

Given that you did this rather avoidable mistake, I wonder how well-researched everything else is?


edited: spelling error - shame on me!

[ February 09, 2004, 19:29: Message edited by: Arralen ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Arralen:
One suggestion of undoubtable historically correctness:

There wasn't, and isn't, a word as "hara-kiri".
It was "invented" by americans who didn't get another word right, can't remember which one though.
It is shurely possible to google for the whole story.

Ritual self-disembodyment (sp?) was and is called "seppuko".

Given that you did this rather avoidable mistake, I wonder how well-researched everything else is?

He also has the short sword misnamed. The correct name is "wakizashi".

I'm sure that if we go through his mod with a very critical eye we'll find other quirks. Rather than nitpick textual inaccuracies, I think it's more productive to evaluate the units themselves, and the gameplay of the mod as a whole.

Still, if you feel that perfect text is most important, you are certainly entitled to that view. However, it is *my* view that you can, and should, be somewhat less confrontational in presenting your findings than to use a statement such as "Given that you did this rather avoidable mistake, I wonder how well-researched everything else is?" It's rude.

[Scott Hebert]

The term is actually 'seppuku'. That was the ritual suicide by self-disembowelment of samurai, yes. 'Hara-kiri' literally means 'stomach-cut' and is an accepted though not strictly accurate equivalent, true.

If the 'well researched' thing was meant towards me, I don't recall using the term 'hara-kiri' anywhere in my post, and I can only say that my information is as current as I could have it 2 months ago when I was taking my classes.

Bayushi Tasogare

[Potatoman]

As far as I can tell from googling, Hara-Kiri is an english construction of the words Abdomen (hara) and the verb to cut (kiri) which has become prevalent pretty much everywhere. Hara-Kiri and Seuppuku both refer to the same ritual suicide ceremony, often dual-listed together under the same heading in a dictionary.

Regardless, I'm not attempting strict historical accuracy. None of the standard Dominions races are made to flawlessly represent ancient civilizations, and I'm not trying for perfection in that regard either. The O-Ban great guard, for example, were created after the unification but are recruitable units in the mod. Likewise Tengu, Oni and Yurei are only myths and their inclusion would be historicaly inaccurate, yet they are summonable.