Give me good reasons why R'lyeh is a balanced nation.

[incognito]

How often do vastnesses come along? ie ever gotten one? Also, at what summoning skill do you get access to tougher monsters?

My only encounters with void critters have been battles to the death. In both cases, I could have mindbLasted the guys, but one of them got the drop on me first. I have yet to be feebleminded (or at least I think so).

[Bowlingballhead]

Vastnesses are pretty rare (I usually get 1 per game), and truthfully, while they're good units, they're not quite as amazing as they tend to be made out to be. Greater Othernesses are much more common, and are pretty much as good.

I suggest starting out buying crab hybrids and shamblers as bodyguards, then replacing them when you start getting decent void monsters, or when you research those spells. That should keep your boy alive long enough to plump your army out with some mighty otherworldly backup.

[ February 05, 2004, 18:13: Message edited by: Bowlingballhead ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by incognito:
How often do vastnesses come along? ie ever gotten one? Also, at what summoning skill do you get access to tougher monsters?

I have gotten a Vastness with summoning 9. The most vastnesses I have had in a single game is 3.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Bowlingballhead:
[QB] Vastnesses are pretty rare (I usually get 1 per game), and truthfully, while they're good units, they're not quite as amazing as they tend to be made out to be. Greater Othernesses are much more common, and are pretty much as good./QB]

Sorry to disagree, but the GO isn't even close to as good. The Vastness flies, has strategic move of 10 -- which makes for one hell of a SC that can zip around the map as a fire brigade if needed, or to single-handedly chomp on enemy rear-area provinces -- and much better attacks (and more of them, too). Anyone who thinks the GO is even in the same league as the Vastness hasn't been using a Vastness to its full potential, even as a non-SC.

There's a very good reason why the Vastness is a rare summon, and limited in how many you can get.

[Wendigo]

Originally posted by Taqwus:

Protecting territory of decent size on land thus depends on independent units, which may have trouble dealing with the better nationals from other nations e.g. hoplites, Emerald Guard, massed xbows + Flaming Arrows et al.

I would say that a network of well placed labs helps R'lyeh quite a bit here. It might take the Spawns a couple turns to react, but when done, it's done in force.

The magical nature of their units also makes them highly vulnerable to non-astral leader-killing tactics, because without mages most of their units will rout or even dissolve, and many indy provinces can't produce mages even with a lab. Risky.

Not so much of a problem as you make it sound. Spending just 1 gold in province defense gives R'lyeh an Illithid Lord with magical leadership that can sustain an horde of mindless magical critters, even if all recruited commanders were to die (which is also unlikely IMO, the Starspawns are extremely resistant to both physical & magical assasination).

[ February 09, 2004, 10:01: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

[tinkthank]

Excuse me for digging this post out of the archives, but I searched beforehand....

I don't get R'lyeh yet. Following things baffle me:

- No sacred troops. Upkeep ouch. Why?
- For the price of 1 Theurg (150), which has 3 Priest + 4 magic (and nice ones too), I get a starspawn, which has only 2 magic but mind bLast. Why is that a fair trade?
- That leaves one other mage, the big starspawn. I guess I just havent figured out how to use him well, since I have upkeep and resource problems.

Why do people think R'yleh is overpowered? (Well I agree: neat, it is neat, but overpowered? Antimagic or Mindless troops is like staff of storms to bowmen, and then what do they have? Lobos.)

[CharonJr]

The summons are the sacred troops.

The starspwan priests for 150 are good summoners and besides R'lyeh getting a void gate in its home province there is another site in the game with a void gate. Nothing like using 2 gates at once and often getting a higher level summon each turn this way.

The starspawn mages are just great IMO, they are at 1W, 3 As and 2? (IIRC) you can often get a 4As mage who is able to cast Enslave Mind without having to empower him. Paralyse and Soul Slay can be used with the "standard" 3As.

But yes, I agree that upkeep is VERY high, that's why I tend to head towar the land fairly early - for all those nice farm lands.

I am not sure about overpowered, but enslave mind/paralyse in combination with Illithids and 2 potential void gates and the resulting summons surely IS powerful.

CharonJr