Fire 9 blessing

[mivayan]

Flaming Weapons (8 ap damage)

All enemies hit by a meele weapon will suffer from extra fire damage as well. The fire is magical and will be effective versus ethereal beings.

What does this mean, exactly, in the game mechanics?

For exampaple, a lava warrior has 14 str and 2 morningstars with damage: 6

My take on this:
This will let morning star hit ethereal beings like it was a magical weapon.

If the morning star hits, passing defence/luck/repell etc, it will do damage as usual with 6+14 damage versus enemy prot. After this the 8ap damage will be put against the enemy prot.

If the second morning star hit, flaming weapons will deal ap damage again.

8 ap damage seems to be fairly useless against prot23 ulm infantry. Is str perhaps added to the fire damage? That would make it extremely good.

[IKerensky]

AP = Armor piercing.

From the experience I have with troups I would say that heavy protection wont help that much...

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by mivayan:
Flaming Weapons (8 ap damage)

All enemies hit by a meele weapon will suffer from extra fire damage as well. The fire is magical and will be effective versus ethereal beings.

What does this mean, exactly, in the game mechanics?

For exampaple, a lava warrior has 14 str and 2 morningstars with damage: 6

My take on this:
This will let morning star hit ethereal beings like it was a magical weapon.

If the morning star hits, passing defence/luck/repell etc, it will do damage as usual with 6+14 damage versus enemy prot. After this the 8ap damage will be put against the enemy prot.

If the second morning star hit, flaming weapons will deal ap damage again.

8 ap damage seems to be fairly useless against prot23 ulm infantry. Is str perhaps added to the fire damage? That would make it extremely good.

IIRC, only the fire damage part is extra effective against ethreals, strength is not added and every attack gets the additional fire damage.

Actually it is against 23 prot targets that the 8 ap damage comes into it's own. Versus armor 23 the 8 ap damage deals on average just 1 less damage than the orginal damage 20 morningstar, so effectively you are likely to cause approximately double damage to such an opponent. Had the effect added strength as well it would have been overpowered. You also choose one of the higher damage holy troops as an example, obviously the damage from the fire effect is better at low damage attacks, such as the hooves of the horses on knights of the chalice, or the spears of battle vestals etc.

[ February 11, 2004, 15:27: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[Arryn]

The 8AP fire completely ignores the 23 protection, since Ulmish troops have zero natural protection, their protection being entirely due to armor. So that's 8 points gone of the 12 total HP that the 23 protection infantryman has. Not shabby at all.

[Kristoffer O]

8 ap dmg is not supposed to ignore armor, only to divide it by two. If you have other experiences let us know.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
8 ap dmg is not supposed to ignore armor, only to divide it by two. If you have other experiences let us know.

I was explaining it as it had been explained to me. My question then is if AP damage only halves armor, then how would you ever hurt something with 23? 23 is virtually immune to normal damage (unless by giants) and half of 23 is more than most AP effects. Do ethereal weapons also only halve armor, or do they ignore it?

[ February 11, 2004, 15:41: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[johan osterman]

There are armor negating attacks as well, which ignores armor. Furthermore since the dam rolls are open ended there is allways a chance of damaging any unit even, theoretically, a chance of killing it instantly with any attack. Also as your fatigue increases attacker will get a chance to armor penetrate on hits. If you pit a unit like for example emerald guards against ulms 23 prot infantry you will see that even with dam 18, IIRC, they do not acquit themselves to badly. If you use a crossbow with 12ap damage it will do damage in 50% of the hits versus a 23 prot unit. There are plenty of ways to deal with ulmish infantry, few if any experienced players consider basic Ulm to be one of the best nations.

What is an ethreal weapon?

[ February 11, 2004, 15:48: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
What is an ethreal weapon?

Astral, my bad.

[johan osterman]

In that case they are armor negating.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Arryn:
My question then is if AP damage only halves armor, then how would you ever hurt something with 23? 23 is virtually immune to normal damage (unless by giants) and half of 23 is more than most AP effects.

Armor piercing brings 23 down to an easy number. 23/2 (rounded up) is 12, and an 8 damage attack does average .75 damage against 12 protection. Lances (22) do an average 1.67 damage, a size-6 trampler (12 ap damage) will do 2.13 damage average, and so forth. Crossbows will do 1.29 average damage, and Jotuns with axes do 4.75 average damage.

The best way to kill Ulmians is with armor-negating or strong armor-piercing attacks, like lightning, poison clouds, falling fires, cold fog, sleep, and so forth. "Weapons of Sharpness" can be good, too. However, fatiging them to death can kill them without magic... High fatigue levels give a chance of reducing protection by 50%, and armor-piercing on top of a 50% armor reduction virtually eliminates armor. "Swarm", "Phantasmal Warrior / Wolves", "Summon Imps/Lifelong Protection" or a bunch of weak undead / militia can soak up a large number of attacks and leave the Ulmians with high fatigue when they get to your real troops, so that attacks penetrate their armor.

Edit: Auras and fatigue weapons work, too. Sleep Vines does 33 fatigue damage * 3 attacks, which is greater than any unit's normal protection. Summer Lions / Abysians / Winter Wolves / Hydras / Bog Beasts have damaging auras, and Spring Hawks negate armor. Skeletal Archers essentially kill anything they hit, in my experience, and Nether Darts will annihilate an Ulmish army... well, any army, but especially Ulmish ones.

[ February 11, 2004, 16:54: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]