Should I buy this game?

[Johan K]

Of course you should buy this game! On the odd chance that you don't like it, please note that the CD has a pretty blue picture and should compliment your Space Empires coaster just fine.

/Johan K
Taking a stab at customer support

Not to mention that the manual can be used as a form of Avant Garde Art. Notice how the eyes follow you? Notice how the eyes follow?!

Creepy.

[Fyron]

How is the interface in SE4 bad? It provides all of the data you need, in appropriate windows. So does Dominions. So does Civ II, SMAC, etc.

Also, there is the "next ship available" button and "next fleet available" button that makes it a snap to find any and all ships that do not have orders, and then cycle through all fleets, respectively. Just like in any of those games you mentioned, other than Dominions, in fact. Sure, you have to click on other systems on the galaxy map to see other portions of your empire, but how is that really any different than clicking on different portions of the minimaps in Civ, SMAC, etc.?

It is impossible to assess how well you are doing in every aspect fo the game from just one window. It requires several different windows to give the information on different areas. This is exactly like in Civ, SMAC, etc., where you have to glance at a bunch of different windows to see how you are doing overall. And there is always the score window...

I think you missed the movement replay log buttons. They will show you all movement that occured in a particular system. There is also a button to show the movement of all ships. You certainly get a lot more than just a snap shot.

I have played SE4, and it, IMO, does not compare to Civ or SMAC.

That is odd, since it has more depth than either of those games.

[ February 13, 2004, 04:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Argitoth]

I baught SE4 but I never played it.

I really want to actually, I just can't pull myself away from Dominions 2! LOL

[PvK]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
...
Also, there is the "next ship available" button and "next fleet available" button that makes it a snap to find any and all ships that do not have orders, and then cycle through all fleets, respectively. Just like in any of those games you mentioned, other than Dominions, in fact. ...

Actually, Dominions II has the same feature. Press "n" to go to the next leader without orders.

PvK

[Nethog]

Thanks for all of your feedback - there were some very good tips and I want to spend some time playing the D2 demo this weekend to try them out, and come up with a decision whether to buy the game or not. Here's my response to everyone's commments:

licker wrote:
There is also alot of information contained on the main screen once you learn what the filters do. F1 is a great screen to help you manage your provinces and even commanders

Yes I agree F1 is very, very useful. I wonder why it wasn't mentioned in the walk-through?

Arryn wrote:
What troubles me about your posting is that your primary evaluation of the game is how good it's histographs are and not about whether the AI is good, or the gameplay, or the depth of the strategies that you can play with, or the variety of units, equipment, and magic.

Please don't misintrepret my particular percieved issue with D2's UI as the only thing that is important to me - AI/gameplay/strategies/etc are all very important, and I have already got a sense that D2 is a shining example of an excellent strategy game. Space Empires IV also has excellent AI/gameplay/strategies/etc but due to the UI flaws I pointed out in my original post, I just found it too tedious to play.

Arryn wrote:
The classics are more polished, but that's only to be expected given the size and budgets of the companies that made them.

Agreed. All I would like to see is a little more static and dynamic graphical feedback on the world map to avoid having continually open sub-windows or right-click on each province every turn.

Gandalf Parker wrote:
Well if the game does become a coaster for you this will be the first time Ive heard of it for the reasons you give. Usually its not being able to get past the learning curve. Or a pre-disposition to only playing games with super pretty graphics.

Well in the case of Space Empires IV, I made a substantial effort to learn the game, its strategies, but I just found that without the visual feedback I just found it too tedious, kind of like "playing a spreadsheet".

PvK wrote:
... though I know some people wish the interface were improved in various ways.

I agree. I would like to see each indivdual leader shown on the world map with their individual army size, as well as friendly and especially enemy army movement when processing a turn. Of course there would be restrictions on which enemy army movements you would see.

Zen wrote:
With respect to (A), my personal opinion is that you should not be able to divine your strategic status in one standing analytical report. It comes from the fact that the amount of information and it's impact is easier to define and use for me personally if it is funneled into sectional data (Research, Income, etc).

I generally agree with this, however the more I think about it the more I think that what I really think is missing is the display of individual commanders and their specfic army sizes on the world map. By the way, I don't recall seeing ANY indication on the world map that a province contains one of your scouts does it?

Zen wrote:
Also a /sword/ icon next to a province name indicates troops present (when next to a Commander, troops under his command). This allows an easier access to independant recruitment and supplementation to your armies. It also provides you with Supplies and Supplies Used.

Ahh excellent tip , thanks Zen.

Johan K wrote:
Of course you should buy this game! On the odd chance that you don't like it, please note that the CD has a pretty blue picture and should compliment your Space Empires coaster just fine.

Amazing, I'll order my copy of D2 right away!!

Imperator Fyron wrote:

How is the interface in SE4 bad? ...

Hey there are good things about the SEIV interface as well, again I just think it should be easier to visually assess your strength on the strategic map and see movement between turns. Your point about replaying system movement isn't quite what I was thinking of - who would want do this for 20+ systems each turn? Why not just have an option to display the movement of fleets/ships in all systems during turn processing?

PvK wrote:
Actually, Dominions II has the same feature. Press "n" to go to the next leader without orders

Great tip - thanks!
-----

I guess all my years of playing strategy board games (including hex-based war games with cardboard counters) and the years of playing Civ based computer games has made me "expect" to see units/armies on a strategic map, as well as seeing movement between hexes/squares/regions while you are playing. Without these two elements it feels to me like you are watching cells in a spreadsheet update and detracts from the enjoyment of the game. Am I the ONLY one who thinks this way or are there others?

To summarize, I would like a better graphical representation of individual leaders and army strength on the world map, and see leader/army movement during turn processing. Of course there would have to restrictions on specifically which enemy movement you see. Does anyone know if Ilwinter is good at accepting enhancement requests and actually delivering some of them with updates (Aaron WAS very good at this with Space Emipires)?

[Nethog]

After playing the D2 demo over the weekend - I must say that I'M HOOKED! and have just ordered the game!!