cavalry charges against pikes units

Zurai · #1 February 16th, 2004, 11:35 PM

A pike is NOT a melee weapon. A pike *formation* is a melee formation, but individually a pike is about the weakest weapon that exists. The advantage of a pike square is that it's impossible to reach the first line of soldiers without THREE or more lines of soldiers being in range of you. When you only have one line, a pike is simple to beat - they're incredibly unwieldy and have no way to handle anything closer than 8 feet or so in front of you.

Pikes have value *only* in a formation, and only in a deep formation at that. A single pikeman has absolutely no strength to repel a cavalry charge, even with just one horseman bearing down on him.

Norfleet · #2 February 16th, 2004, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zurai:
A single pikeman has absolutely no strength to repel a cavalry charge, even with just one horseman bearing down on him.

I wouldn't quite say THAT. A single horseman colliding with a single pointy stick is in for a world of hurt. It'll be that much harder for a single pikeman to connect, but if he does, it's gonna hurt just as much.

Of course, you can model this by having all pikes in a square be able to make a repel attempt against anything that attacks the square...and combine that with my "extra damage for repelling a charger" bonus. A charging cavalryman will thus be looking at 3 sharp pointy stick attacks at once....with extra damage because he charged across the field into them.

Arryn · #3 February 17th, 2004, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zurai:
they're incredibly unwieldy and have no way to handle anything closer than 8 feet or so in front of you.

Pikemen were routinely issued small axes (or shortswords) as secondary weapons.

Zurai · #4 February 17th, 2004, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I wouldn't quite say THAT. A single horseman colliding with a single pointy stick is in for a world of hurt. It'll be that much harder for a single pikeman to connect, but if he does, it's gonna hurt just as much.

The reason pikes are effective against horses is that horses aren't dumb. They won't charge into a field of sharp pointy things that they can't jump over and can't avoid. They won't knowingly commit suicide. A single pikeman doesn't provide that benefit - there's plenty of room for the horse to manuever.

Zurai · #5 February 17th, 2004, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arryn:
Pikemen were routinely issued small axes (or shortswords) as secondary weapons.

Which doesn't negate anything I said at all; indeed, it reinforces it. Pikemen wouldn't be issued alternate arms if the pikes were a viable melee weapon in its own right.

Aikamun · #6 February 17th, 2004, 06:40 AM

Pete Rose is my Pikeman trainer. His famous words, "Choke up on the bat, son, for more maneuverability." I can see them doing so if their formation has broken up or when fatigued.

Aikamun

[ February 17, 2004, 04:46: Message edited by: Aikamun ]

Zurai · #7 February 17th, 2004, 10:43 AM

I want to be clear here in case people are getting the wrong message (probably are, I'm good at sending the wrong message): I'm not opposed to a pike vs cavalry bonus at all - matter of fact, I was surprised there wasn't one. I simply enjoy debating. I apologize if I seemed overly critical or negative.