cavalry charges against pikes units

[Zurai]

I want to be clear here in case people are getting the wrong message (probably are, I'm good at sending the wrong message): I'm not opposed to a pike vs cavalry bonus at all - matter of fact, I was surprised there wasn't one. I simply enjoy debating. I apologize if I seemed overly critical or negative.

[Pocus]

There is also a problem with how narrow is the deployment area on the battlefield. Against big sized armies (200+ units), you will always find that your cavalry that you put on a wing, with order to attack rear, will fail to do anything 'flanking'-wise, and will stumble against the enemy center (which is a big mass), as soon as they move.

With a wider deployment area, and with a revision to the attack rear, then you would have proper usage for wings of cavalry.

Revision of attack rear:
It has been aknowledged by the devs that the bigger the formations are, in the front of your army, the lower the chances are that an enemy squad on attack rear will really attack rear. I'm unsure its realistic, but gameplay wise I can tell you that against any significant sized army, this 'magnet' effect is so strong that any attack rear order will fail miserably.

damn, I feel my english is worsening each days. Sorry...

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Aikamun:
His famous words, "Choke up on the bat, son, for more maneuverability." I can see them doing so if their formation has broken up or when fatigued.

If you've ever seen a good medieval re-enactment, or held a 14' pike and then tried to actually do what you suggest, you quickly realize the ludicrousness of the idea. Choke up on a 14' pike, indeed! hah

[Zurai]

Attack rearmost almost never works for me. They always hit the rear of the front formation, ignoring the archers and mages and commanders behind those. This is fliers and cavalry both.

[PDF]

Well, Dom doesn't model neither charges nor formation in a very detailed/realistic way...

The current "charge" is not that bad : Lance is used only on 1st melee turn. However it can't be "countered" by pike formations.
Maybe Pikes could be improved to say Dam 18 w/o Str adjust, AND be usable for say 3 turns, then the pikemen will have to draw their sword ? Historically it wasn't completely like that, what mattered was that the phalanx has to remain orderly, but it could be a compromise ...

And I confirm that even when faced with few enemies (say 50 in 3-4 Groups), in 2.06, cavalry ordered to attack rear usually attack the flank of the enemy FRONT units, and does'nt get to the rear... IIRC it DID it correctly in 2.02

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Zurai:
Attack rearmost almost never works for me. They always hit the rear of the front formation, ignoring the archers and mages and commanders behind those. This is fliers and cavalry both.

If they pass close enough to an enemy formation, I find your troops tend to change targets and attack that formation, instead of the rear one they had their sight on They would probably resume their rear attack once they got rid of the one that got on the way (or rather, "near the way"), but by then it doesn't matter anyway...

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Pocus:

Revision of attack rear:
It has been aknowledged by the devs that the bigger the formations are, in the front of your army, the lower the chances are that an enemy squad on attack rear will really attack rear. I'm unsure its realistic, but gameplay wise I can tell you that against any significant sized army, this 'magnet' effect is so strong that any attack rear order will fail miserably.

I didn't know we had acknowledged that. AFAIK the attack rear order gives your soldiers a target from one of the rearmost units. If there are many units in the rear when target is selected there might be problems. Big armies in front does not affect the targeting.

The targeting works something like:
1 Select single rearmost unit.
2 Random chance of ignoring.
3 Repeat with second rearmost target etc

Hold and attack rear can be useful if you want enemies to split up a bit to choose more permanently rearmost targets.