tcp/ip Net Play For Space Empires IV

[LazarusLong42]

Hrm. I tend to like the PBEM/PBW paradigm, myself. Perhaps this is because I simply don't have time to sit around playing games for hours on end, and play a couple of games, one turn a day, fits much better into my schedule--and that of, I suspect a lot of the people who play SE4, namely people with jobs and wives and houses and so forth.

Perhaps on a weekend day I could get through ten or fifteen turns of simultaneous play (in the midgame, I tend to take upwards of half an hour to run my turns even against the AI). But I'd just as well spread that out over the course of a week, playing six to ten turns over the week. But sitting Online waiting for turns to come back... doesn't strike me as very exciting. Nor does sitting waiting for tactical combat.

Perhaps SE4 will never have the following of Starcraft or Quake, but then SE4 is a much more complicated game, and let's face it: you average 15-year-old l33t h4x0r type who spends ten hours a day playing games wants to play something with constant action--not something where you might, in a long game, even have written notes about what you're doing to keep track of things in your Empire.

Personally, I'll take the small, dedicated community of professional types over a hundred thousand script kiddies any day.

LL

[MasterDave]

Laz,

Keep in mind that we are not talking about a zero-sum game here. If Malfador were to implement TC/IP, it would not mean the end of PBEM. I can definitely see how that would be a better format for someone who lacks the time or willingness to play a game for hours at a time. Many of the Kali Moo2 gang were adults (at least I am) with full-time jobs, and families/girlfriends to keep happy. We were still able to find time (a few hours on a weeknight or longer during a weekend) to play multi-session games. The quake kiddies for the most part do not have the patience for a turn-based strategy epic like Moo2 or SE4 anyway.

In a network setting, I would hope that people would keep their turns down to five minutes or so during the mid-game (quicker early) in order to keep the game moving. PBEM is probably a better option for the more methodical/perfectionist types who want to attend to every detail every turn. Against the AI, I usually take about 3-5 minutes per turn, but occasionally have that "monster turn" with ship designing, colony queuing, building atmosphere converters, etc which can Last as much as half an hour. In a network setting, people would probably have to better learn to spread these activities over several turns to save time. Tactical combat would probably be something only used in a two-player game only, so players three, four, and five are not kept waiting. Even in Moo2, which generally had far fewer ships in a battle, waiting for tactical combat in a game with more than two people was the biggest "bummer" (although with the chat feature we could plot and scheme against the two players in the battle while they were fighting).

I still feel that TC/IP is the only major element missing from this game. If Malfador adds that, then SE IV can become truly great in the minds of more of its current fans.



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Follow the Golden Rule:
"He who has the Gold makes the rules.."

[geoschmo]

I agree that tcp/ip will be a very nice feature once it is implemented. It definitly has it's place. That is one of the best things about SEIV is it's ability for varying styles of play.

Both PBEM and tcp/ip have advantages and disadvantages and depending on your point of view you may lean towards one or the other.

However, I would like to encourage anyone waiting for tcp/ip support to check out Admiral's Play by Web server. http://seiv.admiral.com

It is the ultimate in convience in PBEM and you may find it a more than adequate substitute while you wait for tcp/ip to be implimented.

All turn processing is automatic. You can get together with a friend, or 5 or 10 and set up a game on the PBW server. As soon as the Last player uploads their .plr file, which is done via webpage interface, the server kicks off the next .gam file and emails it to everyone in the game.

In my experience the new turn hits my email box within a minute after the Last player uploads their player file. This is about as close to realtime as you can get with PBEM, and not much slower than tcp/ip is going to be.

No it's not totally automatic as tcp/ip I guess will be. You do have to upload your player file. And you have to open the game turn once it hits your email box, but that's it as far as game mechanics. Everything else is automatic, even for the player who set the game up.

No, you don't have tactical combat. That is not supported for multiplayer SEIV except in a hotseat game. If that is a deal breaker for you, then PBW isn't for you. Although I will be mildly suprised if tcp/ip has that feature either.

And there is a communication lag in PBEM. If you send a message to another empire in turn 3, you won't get his response until turn 5, because he gets it in turn 4. I like that though. It gives me the feeling that I am sending message to someone light years away. Others don't like it though.

You and your friends could stay Online and burn through turns as fast as you can play them. Nothing slow about PBEM when its done via the PBW server.

Just a suggestion. Hope to see you all in a game sometime.

Geo

[God Emperor]

Geo,
Agree with your comments, although as a lover of tactical combat (I still get all nostalgic about some of my MOO2 combats with friends), I definately look forward to a TCP/IP Version (that supports tactical combat). Only three of my friends play SE4, so games shouldnt drag too much and shouldnt be too hard to coordinate.

[geoschmo]

Don't get me wrong. I would love tactical combat in multiplayer games. I was just saying I'd be suprised if we got it. It doesn't seem to be one of Aaron's priorities, considering he almost took it out of SEIV entireley. From what I hear it was only the strong reaction of the beta group that changed his mind on that.

Geo

[Will]

Actually it was even before the beta group. There was an e-mail discussion list (it might still exist on EGroups, although there hasn't been a message on it since about halfway between beta start and SEIV release. If it's still there, then the archives are, you can see all the grand ideas and their usually much simplified Versions in the game ) for features SEIII fans wanted in SEIV. Basically, everyone was talking of how great tactical combat would be if things like gun facing, targetting arcs, inertia/gravity effects, true coordinates, etc. were added into tactical combat. Then they learned that tactical combat wouldn't be too different from SEIII, and shortly after that Aaron wanted to take it out completely. I think that one fact made up for all of the smashed hopes

Tactical Combat in multiplayer games really wouldn't work when you think about it, because it's really a separate game within the game (one reason why I didn't want tactical *ground* combat... game, within a game, within a game ). It would be fine for a one on one game, but if you have a large free-for-all game, think of all the combats that would take place, and how long it would take these grand battles to play out, one, by one. If put in at all, there would have to be a switch.

[Admiral Grover]

Actually the list is still there on EGroups. Although it is now Yahoo! Groups. Just search for SE4 and you should find it. There has been several good discussions on it recently, although they do tend to get off-topic quite easily.

Regards,
Admiral Grover

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Admiral Grover
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