Another possible combat bug in v1.35 (weapon platforms)

[HreDaak]

quote:

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Originally posted by Will:
Hmmm... and the WP's to-hit is lower than 99% without any other units on the planet?[quote]

Yes.. weapon platforms should use same to hit mechanism as every other unit in the game...

For example: You have 1 weapon platform (race that owns it has no racial modifiers or racial traits) with combat sensors III (+65% to hit) on a planet and its target is battlecruiser which has no experience, is not part of any fleet and the race that owns it has no racial modifiers/racial traits. The only thing that decreases the to hit chance to battlecruiser is its ECM III system (+60% in defense). Range from the planet to the battlecruiser is lets say 5 and the beams in the weapon platform have no Weapon modifier (antiproton beam XII).

Now the chance to hit the battlecruiser should be 100%+65%-60%-50%=55%, but when there are no other units on the planet the to hit chance is 61% in real combat and 85% in simulator. It gets much weirder when there are fighters on the planet at the beginning of the combat. In this case the weapon platforms chance to hit the battlecruiser (or any other unit in space) is 99% (regardless of range as long as the range is equal or less than the maximum range of antiproton beam XII).

[quote] It seems strange that fighters on a planet would affect the planet's to-hit chance. As for the to-be-hit, since the WPs are on a planet, that's irrelevant (only two possible values: 99% to-hit for normal, 100% for Religious Talisman).[quote]

Uhm.. maybe i was a bit unclear (my english sucks), but the thing that i meant was the fact that weapon platforms have 99% chance to hit ships/fighters regardless of range and other modifiers when there are fighters on the planet at the beginning of the combat.

[quote] As for the simulator... only thing I can think of is that the simulator doesn't add in racial traits, and thus if you had a racial trait of -24% Offense, you would get those results.

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There were no race modifiers/racial traits when i tested this... (created a new race with no race modifiers or racial traits).

[Q]

Well I tested this in the simulator and cannot confirm it. The hit chance of the weapon platforms on the planet was lower than 99% even in the presence of 15 fighters all with combat sensors. Even more the hit chance decreased like it should with the target distance.
Second I tested also satellite Groups with ECM and combat sensors. Here too everything seems to work as it should.
It is just fighter Groups that have the bug. And the bigger the fighter group the bigger is the combined effect of the ECM/combat sensors (see corresponding topic).

[HreDaak]

quote:

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Originally posted by Q:
Well I tested this in the simulator and cannot confirm it. The hit chance of the weapon platforms on the planet was lower than 99% even in the presence of 15 fighters all with combat sensors. Even more the hit chance decreased like it should with the target distance.[quote]

Were the fighters in the planets cargo at the beginning of the combat? Did you use a normal ship as a target? If you used another large fighter group as a target the anomality could very well cancel itself.

I just did a new clean install and applied v1.35 patch over it. The problems are still there .
Here is exactly what i did and repeated with new clean install...

Phase 1:
1. Created a new race with no racial modifiers/racial traits.
2. Started new game with this race (high tech start), no computer players.
3. Designed large fighter(1*f. cockpit, 1*f. life support, 7*small Q.Engine III), battlecruiser (1*bridge, 2*life support, 2*crew quarters, 6*Q. Engine III) and large weapon platform (1*W. Plats. Comp. Core, 1*Antiproton beam XII (No mounts)).
4. Started simulator, and changed player 2 to human control.
5. Added 1 battlecruiser to player 1 and the home planet with 1 large weapon platform to player 2.
6. Started the combat in simulator and moved the battlecruiser to a distance of 8 from the planet. Now the weapon platforms chance to hit the battlecruiser should be 100%-80%=20% but it is 50%!!!. So here is the mysterious +30% chance to hit in simulator (applies only on weapon platforms in simulator).

Phase 2:
1. Stop the combat and add 1 heavy fighter to planets cargo.
2. Move the battlecruiser again to a distance of 8 from the planet.
3. Now the to hit chance should be 100%-80%+(30%)= 20%/(50%) but surprise surprise its 99%.

Phase 3:
1. Stop the combat again and add 1 large fighter to player 1.
2. Move the large fighter to a distance of 2 from the planet.
3. Now the to hit chance should be 100%-20%-60%+(30%)=20%/(50%). But the actual hit chance according the simulator is now 90%!!!.
The solution is the fact that the fighters offensive modifier is added to the weapon platforms offensive modifier. Here is how it goes when you take in account the so called fighter bug (i suppose this bug affects on all units that are in the same tactical combat square):
Hit chance is 100%(Base hit chance)-20%(range modifier)+100%(2*fighters offensive modifier)-120%(2*the target fighters defensive modifier)+30%(the mysterious weapon platform modifier in simulator)=90%, exactly the to hit chance that appears now in the simulator...

[quote]
Second I tested also satellite Groups with ECM and combat sensors. Here too everything seems to work as it should.
It is just fighter Groups that have the bug. And the bigger the fighter group the bigger is the combined effect of the ECM/combat sensors (see corresponding topic).

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Humm.. in my experience the ECM systems and combat sensors do not stack even in fighter Groups. Only things that stack are the abilities Combat To Hit Offense/Defense Plus in VehicleSize.txt file. Satellites do not have any abilities in VehicleSize.txt file, fighters do have (large fighter has +50% offense and +60% defense).

[This message has been edited by HreDaak (edited 14 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by HreDaak (edited 14 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by HreDaak (edited 14 May 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

You could chek to see if it related only to fighters by putting 2 x ECM and 2 X combat sensors on the respective ships. They use the same ability. See if they also stack, they shouldn't.

[Q]

HreDaak: yes the fighter were in the cargo section of the planet and yes again the target was a ship. I can only say: more testing is needed!

[Q]

The more tests I make the less I understand it:
If I have two weapon platforms on a planet one with combat sensors and one without, the hit chance for both are equal! And if you compare it to one single weapon platform without combat sensors it seems that the combat sensor is effective for both platforms.
If I have an equal fighter group of ten each, one group with ECM and combat sensors (max tech level) and the other without, the hit chance for the first group on the other is 1% and for the second group on the first one 10% if the are on adjacent squares.

[HreDaak]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
You could chek to see if it related only to fighters by putting 2 x ECM and 2 X combat sensors on the respective ships. They use the same ability. See if they also stack, they shouldn't.

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Tested this one.. they do not stack. But there is this one strange problem with them. When there are units in the same tactical square (on a planet for example) the highest of the combat sensors/ECM systems present is used by ALL the units in the same tactical square (on a planet for example). You could create 2 different weapon platforms of which one has combat sensors and the other one does not have and their chance to hit hostile targets in combat are same... (ie. both weapon platforms benefit from combat sensors even though only one of them actually has them).

Here is a list of bugs/features that i have encountered in a tactical combat...

1. Weapon Modifier in Components.txt and Weapon To Hit Modifier in CompEnhancements.txt behave strangely. They both raise the weapons minimum To Hit Chance in combats. So if you give weapon a Weapon Modifier or a Weapon To Hit Modifier (Mount) the weapons minimum chance to hit in combat is raised to this number+1%. For example if you give a weapon Weapon Modifier of X then that weapons to hit chance in combats never (if the target is in that weapons range) goes below (X+1)%.

2. Combat To Hit Offense/Defense Plus abilities in VehicleSize.txt do stack on units that are in the same tactical square at the beginning of the combat (all units on a planet are in the same tactical square).

3. The abilities Combat To Hit Offense/Defense Plus in Components.txt file do not stack but the highest of these abilities present in that tactical square at the beginning of the combat is used by all the units (all units on a planet are in the same tactical square).

For example: At the beginning of the combat on a planet there are 2 weapon platforms with combat sensors III, 3 weapon platforms without combat sensors and 10 large fighters with small combat sensors III.
ALL the weapon platforms on a planet have same offensive modifier. This modifier is +65%(from the highest Combat To Hit Offense Plus ability from Components.txt file that is present on the planet)+550%(large fighters Combat To Hit Offense ability from VehicleSize.txt file*11)+30%/+6%(depending if its simulator or real combat)=+645%/+621%.

4. Weapon platforms on a planet have offensive modifier of +30% in simulator and +6% in real combats (this is hard coded feature or a bug).

Could someone repeat those 3 test phases that are in my earlier post and then post the results in this thread?