The next patch

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Jasper:
As it stands the only reason I can see to take water on anything other than a Rainbow pretender is for the nice Water 9 blessing.

I take water 2-3 on my combat pretenders quite often.

[Yossar]

Water is great on pretenders for:

1) Quickness, one of the best combat spells in the game

2) To mix with blood for easy access to ice devils.

Breath of winter is really good for taking independents too.

If you're going to be doing any fighting with your pretender, a few points in water is never a waste.

[Jasper]

I used to do that a bit as well, but found I got better battle results out of Fire, Earth, Air, or Astral. Mostly because Water's main benefit to a combat pretender is quickness, which can be easily received from Quickness Boots. Being able to go underwater is nice too (unless R'lyeh, Atlantis, or Ermor or playing), but this too is available through Construction.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Jasper:
I used to do that a bit as well, but found I got better battle results out of Fire, Earth, Air, or Astral. Mostly because Water's main benefit to a combat pretender is quickness, which can be easily received from Quickness Boots.

Many pretenders haven't the required appendages to put boots on.

For battle magic, my own Favorites paths are Water, Earth, Death. With Air and Nature as outsiders.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jasper:
I used to do that a bit as well, but found I got better battle results out of Fire, Earth, Air, or Astral. Mostly because Water's main benefit to a combat pretender is quickness, which can be easily received from Quickness Boots.

Many pretenders haven't the required appendages to put boots on.

For battle magic, my own Favorites paths are Water, Earth, Death. With Air and Nature as outsiders.

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I like air, especailly air 2 - I often take it of my SC pretenders. Mistform+mirror is quite efficint combo.

[ April 06, 2004, 10:32: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Jasper:
You're right, geometric is definitely the right word, not exponential.

I honestly fail to see the difference between "geometric" and "exponential" in this context. They're exactly the same: a constant amount of additional resources (time, or gems, or whatever) brings a constant multiplier to the total value.

Here, the growth is exponential (or geometric) with respect to time, because each 20 clams (or 14, if you have the Dwarven Hammers) generate enough gems each turn to make one more clam: your clam number, just from the clam output, will double every 15-16 turns.

I just computed progression lists, both assuming no normal gem input:

If you start on turn 0 with 20 clams, no gems, and convert each 20 pearls into one clam, you can start turn 16 with 40 clams and 39 pearls; you will need a second forger for the first time on turn 8.

If you start turn 0 with 14 clams, no gems, and a hammer, you will start turn 12 with 28 clams and 34 pearls, assuming you have the second hammer by turn 7. By turn 16, you will have 36 clams and 46 pearls, now needing a third hammer and forger.

Of course, the need for gold (upkeep and cost of recruiting the forgers and clam-bearers) will increase at the same speed. You can alchemize your pearls to pay for it, but it will significantly slow down your doubling rate.

I don't know how efficient this really is; I've never tried very hard to make it work.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:

quote:

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What - "5 bucks to kill hoarders line?

Not much, but enough to show that they think that this is a non-issue.

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No, it is not a non-issue.

As shown in this thread there is no consensus on the clam matter. Some people have a problem, some don't.

I havn't decided my own opinion yet.

My brother came up with the idea that clam hoarding is mostly a blitz problem. In quick paced games it is easier to get left alone and it is easier to get away with less than optimal use of resources.

In PBEM games you ponder your turn for hours, when at work and when sleeping. In this kind of game clam hoarders are probably less likely to succeed.


We didn't intend to make the game a build-up-wish-win-game. We didn't imagine MP games would Last until wish was researched (slight exaggeration, but not far from the truth). High level spells are mostly there for the SP community and to hasten the end of long Lasting MP games.

Research cost can and should be altered in large games.