The next patch

Kelan · #1 April 6th, 2004, 05:53 PM

Perhaps something as simple as removing the ability to alchemize astral gems to water gems could work, or increasing the ratio to 4 or 5 to 1 or something.

This would allow people to still create clams with their natural water gem income, and help curb the abuse of hoarding clams in the ways explained here.

Teraswaerto · #2 April 6th, 2004, 06:09 PM

Limiting the amount of Clams that can exist in the world at the same time would stop excessive hoarding while still leaving Clams useful.

Peter Ebbesen · #3 April 6th, 2004, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
Limiting the amount of Clams that can exist in the world at the same time would stop excessive hoarding while still leaving Clams useful.

No, it would merely impose an artificial restraint causing people to race for clams before somebody else cornered the market on a scarce resource.

Teraswaerto · #4 April 6th, 2004, 06:38 PM

What's "artificial" in this context? If the limit was high enough it wouldn't be an issue unless someone was attempting the kind of hoarding that makes Clams problematic.

atul · #5 April 6th, 2004, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Unfotunatly with graphs disabled (as most people play their MP) there is no way of knowing if the person is hording the clams or not.

(uh-oh, more water into mill, but...) You sure the gems from clams or fewer fetishes shows on graphs? I'm in a MP where I've got a moderate amount of clams and the main benefit imho has been that income from them hasn't appeared in the graphs, which are on for some reason. Same as your blood income, as it doesn't go directly to the treasury but to individual commanders, it doesn't show.

Quote:

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
And killing every nation with astral and water income in the begining of the game is not a good answer to clam-abusing strategy.

I thought the early killing of every nation heavy on astral was one of the main points of long-term survival, clams or no clams... ;p

AhhhFresh · #6 April 6th, 2004, 08:12 PM

It all comes down to Wish.

Clam hoarding to the extent that people seem to be concerned about has a huge oppurtunity (as well as material) cost.

The only way that it makes sense in a strategic sense is if you are racing to chain cast wish... otherwise the impact is not significant enough to justify the cost.

Without wish as the light at the end of tunnel, I don't think there is anyway that a person solely focused on getting 100 clams by turn 70 or whatever is going to win a competative MP game. If they can get away with it, then they were already gonna win... and could have won sooner if they would have refoucsed the materials dedicated to clam forging to research/casting more immediately useful rituals.

Graeme Dice · #7 April 6th, 2004, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AhhhFresh:
Without wish as the light at the end of tunnel, I don't think there is anyway that a person solely focused on getting 100 clams by turn 70 or whatever is going to win a competative MP game.

It's not turn 70, it's turn 60 or sooner. Most likely by turn 40 if the person has good water income.

Like I've already said, there's really no use for water gems. You don't need dozens of quickness boots if your mages already have water magic, murdering winter is useful, but only against a limited subset of your opponent's armies, and the water summons are fairly pathetic. Sea trolls have horrendous attack and defense stats. Now your astral gems on the other hand are going to be useful to you, but by spending only your water gems and those astral gems from the clams, you will have built your 100 clams by turn 38 of the progression. That means that you've given up 380 water gems, but it will have more than paid for itself just 8 turns later.