On the effective early use of Pretenders in combat

[AhhhFresh]

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:
For my part, as far as a Magical Attack pretender, I have yet to see a better one than the Phoenix. I typically go for a Fire9/Air6 Phoenix, especially if I have sacred troops. In any event, once you have Flame Darts, you're pretty much good to go. Air Shield goes up first round if there are archers, and then you just wade through them. If they get to you, you have nice 'personal range' effects to deal with them like Burning Hands or Shockwave (is that what it's called?) and whatnot.

After getting Flame Darts, you can either continue to get better options, or you can switch to get Flame Shield or more defensive options.

Anyway, my thoughts on Artillery Pretenders.

I really like that combo with Abysia... since they start with Flare... which is pretty rockin' if you actually hit with it (exceedingly rare with their national mages)... but that additional precision you get from the Air on the Phoenix, makes a big difference.

I recommend that anyone who thinks that Fire evocation spells are completely worthless, to give it a go.

And Lava Warriors are pretty psycho with flaming weapons and an air shield from the dual bless...

I have heard it said on these Boards that for purposes of mind duel communion does not raise astral level.

Is that true? I haven't been able to find any Posts one way or the other regarding it... maybe it's my atrocious spelling.

[Pat Wilcox]

For my part, as far as a Magical Attack pretender, I have yet to see a better one than the Phoenix. I typically go for a Fire9/Air6 Phoenix, especially if I have sacred troops. In any event, once you have Flame Darts, you're pretty much good to go. Air Shield goes up first round if there are archers, and then you just wade through them. If they get to you, you have nice 'personal range' effects to deal with them like Burning Hands or Shockwave (is that what it's called?) and whatnot.

After getting Flame Darts, you can either continue to get better options, or you can switch to get Flame Shield or more defensive options.

Anyway, my thoughts on Artillery Pretenders.

Couldn't You do the same thing with the Virtue Pretender? You lose the immortality, but you gain AWE (+6) and many more equipment slots.

PatWx

[Scott Hebert]

While you can do the same with a Virtue, there are a couple of concerns I have.

First is the fact that you have to research quite a bit more to get an area-effect Air spell. Therefore, it's not as much of an early lead.

Second, the bless effect is important. With the Virtue, your bless effect is purely defensive (thogh perhaps the best defensive). The Phoenix grants a powerful offensive bless effect.

Lastly, the Phoenix is immortal. Unless you get the Evo-4 Air area spell, I doubt the Virtue could stop a rush before she died. The Phoenix has the benefit of not being as worried about that, and it gets rid of afflictions naturally.

For these reasons, I feel that the Phoenix is superior to the Virtue, at least in the early game.

Bayushi Tasogare

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:

quote:

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adding 1d6 (closed)

I *really* hope this is true, or as I said there is no defence against Mind Duel.

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Well, in the an astral favour from Saber Cherry thread it is semi-acknowledged that the 1d6 is closed.

Regarding communion, my understanding is that communion granted astral magic counts - but I do not have real data to back this up with statistical analysis.

[ March 31, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

[velk]

Using this comparative chart, we see that with the +3 advantage, the Wyrm has a 16.725% chance of surviving each duel, for a 1-(1-0.1675)^n risk of dying against n duelists. For n=6 that is 66.7%, for n=10 the risk of the Wyrm dying is 84.0%.

I assume you mean the wyrm has a 16.7% chance of *NOT* surviving each duel.

In any case 5 + 1d6 being less than 2 + 1d6 occurs for exactly 5 out of 36 possible cases ( 1 and 6, 1 and 5, 1 and 4, 2 and 6, 2 and 5 ). That's 13.8% not 16.7%.

P.S. are we sure a draw kills both of them ? That seems a rather odd result...

[Peter Ebbesen]

Yes, velk, not surviving but NOT surviving. Glaring typo fixed.

As to your calculations, you are wrong.

5+1d6 being less than 2+1d6 happens for (1 5) (1 6) (2 6) which is 3 instances for a theoretical 8.33% rounded to two digits.

5+1d6 being less than or equal to 2+1d6 happens for (1 4) (1 5) (1 6) (2 5) (2 6) and (3 6) which is 6 instances for a theoretical 16.67% rounded to two digits, which is close enough to the experimenatal 16.725% used.

That a tie kills both contestants has been verified many times. It is just one of those risks concerned with not being stronger than the one rummaging through your mind.

I guess the meta-argument is not that you kill the other if you are stronger, but that you die unless you are stronger.

[velk]

Oops, I think the law of pointing out minor spelling mistakes forcing you to make a spelling mistake yourself also applies to mathematical calculations 8)

I can't think of any other way in which I could get 2 + 6 = 7 8).

One slightly related point to that though, is (while the wyrm isn't the best example) that it is easier to increase the astral on one powerful unit with items than it is to increase the astral on 10 weak units with items.

E.g. 10 starshine skullcaps vs 1 for example. Empowerment has a similar scale of effects.

Not to mention that if you guess wrong about what he has been doing in the Last few turns and he shows up with astral 2 or 3 points higher, that losing 10 astral mages and their equipment would be a pretty crippling loss.