Starvation formula??? or bug?

[PvK]

I had thought starvation worked something like:

(Supplies Used) minus (Supplies Available) equals number of starvation effects.

Starvation effects then sprinkled randomly over non-leaders who need food, and double-hits giving disease.

I was thus very surprised when my army took a province and I took many more starvation and disease hits than I expected:

Supplies: 50 Supply Usage: 86

So I'd expect about 36 starving units, with perhaps a few diseased.

Result: 62 units starving, 16 units starving and diseased!

Looking more closely, there are about 50 non-starving units in the province... but I also have two Endless Bags of Wine, on sneaking units.

So I am wondering if I just had a wrong idea of how the formula worked, or maybe if relying on bags of wine on hidden units results in extra starvation damage when and if you don't have enough supplies, due to what would seem to be a bug (such items only counting for the starvation check, but then not for the starvation effects)?

At any rate, I'd like to know better how this works, to avoid losing my men in large numbers in future. Any information? Illwinter? Anyone?

PvK

[rabelais]

I've noticed a few times that the message "...starting to starve..." even when

supplies available > supplies used,

(and no I hadn't just equipped food items and compared after values)

so clearly there is some phenomenon causing

actual supplies < listed supplies

but I haven't been able to pin it down.

Still it's consistent with your data.

Devs want a save file showing this behavior?


Rabe the Suprisingly Famished

[PvK]

I've got files, too.

Did your examples involve food-generating items? If so, were the food sources on sneaking units?

PvK

[Alexander Seil]

If there are n supplies in a province and x of them are being consumed, the number of starving units should, really, be more than x-n. I suppose it should be more of an exponential growth thing (logically, at least). Obviously, a commander can't just say "Ok, we only have 50 loafs of bread and 70 men, hence 20 won't get to eat today" -- rather, supplies would be equally distributed, causing wholesale starvation at a point where the average ration reduction becomes dangerous to one's health.

[PvK]

Yes that makes sense, if the time without food, and the amount of food available, are defined in a certain way. "Supplies" are pretty abstract, though. With different assumptions about what exactly is represented, one might argue that the number starving should be less than the difference, etc. But ya, maybe the rule is supposed to work that way. We either need an answer from the devs about how it's supposed to work, or some thorough studies of what happens in the game, to really know.

And regardless of that, rabelais' observation of starving units even when supplies exceed demand, suggests there is some sort of a bug, which might or might not be related to what I saw.

PvK

[PvK]

Illwinter? Care to enlighten us with information about how many men are supposed to starve when a certain number of supplies are lacking?

PvK

[Kristoffer O]

I have a strange kind of Deja-vu feeling. I remember answering this question some days ago, but I can't find it. Perhaps I only intended to answer or got interrupted.

If you starve when supplies is less than supply usage then something is wrong (display bug or supply bug).

Starving numbers is random, but dependent on needed supplies vs total supplies.

Terrain survival: 50% chance of not affected by starvation (IIRC).

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
I have a strange kind of Deja-vu feeling. I remember answering this question some days ago, but I can't find it. Perhaps I only intended to answer or got interrupted.

If you starve when supplies is less than supply usage then something is wrong (display bug or supply bug).

Starving numbers is random, but dependent on needed supplies vs total supplies.

Terrain survival: 50% chance of not affected by starvation (IIRC).

I've definitely seen cases where there was no starvation message even though the used supplies were higher than the available supplies; and I strongly believe I've seen the reverse, that is, starvation message even though the used supplies were (slightly) lower than available.

For some time, I thought this was a side effect of the turn sequence, but starvation is pretty late in the turn sequence; what could possibly affect this?

[PvK]

Thanks KO!

PhilD, one case I have seen is when you hire mercenaries - they don't eat supplies on the turn they teleport to their hire location, but it does of course show their supply use for the province for the next turn.

Any changing scales/seasons or events (population change) that effect supplies might similarly effect who starved Last turn compared to the current supply display.

PvK