Clam of Pearls overpowered - manual means 1 pearl each season not each turn

[calmon]

I find clams are overpowered. I don't understand the manual text:

"The entchanted shell produces one pearl of Astral essence each season"

I think this means 1 in spring, summer, autumn and winter. So you should get 1 pearl all 3 turns and not every turn!

Most of gem income is based on the clams and every nation tend to procude them in masses. The gem increasing global entchantments or even magical sites aren't that important. With a good astral income you can do all what you want, the exchange rate in any other gem is only 2:1 (better with alchemist stone) and you can even wish for gems (25 of each sort = 175 gems for only 100 pearls). Astral magic is good enough itself but with the clams (and wish) its a must for most of the nations pretender.

I think the curent clams should be changed to 1 gem all 3 turns. Then other income mechanism increases in value and the game is more richly colored.

[HotNifeThruButr]

I thought each season Lasts one turn and each year Lasts four.

A gem every couple turns sounds like a good idea, would it apply to other gem creating items/spells too?

[PDF]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
I thought each season Lasts one turn and each year Lasts four.

A gem every couple turns sounds like a good idea, would it apply to other gem creating items/spells too?

It'll make them pretty useless and/or will even increase need to mass produce them...
I don't yet see the point of claiming "overpowered" an item-oriented strategy that takes 40 or 50 turns to win a game. It's pretty comparable to a blood item (SC + LP)strategy, a Tartarian Gate strategy, an ID strategy... There are many winning strategy, the clam-hoarding one is mostly usable by water nations only (that have a hard time winning anyway..), where's the unbalance here ?
(edited) Seen from another viewpoint :
In SP by turn 40 you have plenty of ways of winning (or be so much more advanced than a win is certain)
In MP it is very rare to play large maps giving players 20+ turns for development only, without encountering other nations. In these games you'd better be able to put a decent force up soon rather than building clam industry !

[ April 13, 2004, 08:20: Message edited by: PDF ]

[Zapmeister]

Hmmm, methinks that like the clams, you must have been living under a rock for the Last few months This issue has been discussed ad nauseum with several possible solutions proposed, including:

a) Changing the cost of clams
b) Balancing water magic, so there's other attractive things to do with your water gems
c) Removing/altering the Wish spell, to remove the inevitable endpoint of a huge astral income.

Personally, I think dividing the value of clams by 3, as you suggest, is going too far. No-one would make clams that were that ineffective, IMHO.

[Zapmeister]

There are many winning strategy, the clam-hoarding one is mostly usable by Rlyeh only (that has a hard time winning anyway..), where's the unbalance here ?

Ack - talk about a red rag to a bull Have you ever been in a game with a clam-hoarder PDF?

Firstly, R'lyeh does not have a "hard time winning anyway". Its paralyzing, fully amphibious national troops seriously kick butt. R'lyeh can hoard clams in the background while still conducting a competitive war on land or (should a land power be foolish enough) in the sea.

Everyone knows this, so R'lyeh is usually left alone for the first part of the game, which is exactly what every clam-hoarder wants. I could go on, but I tired of this topic some time ago, so at this point I'm retiring from any debate that restarts on this issue. I just hope Illwinter (who are still apparently undecided on the issue) decide it needs addressing in the next patch.

[calmon]

I thought each season Lasts one turn and each year Lasts four.

1 turn is 1 month... early spring, spring, late spring, early summer, summer, etc. To find the season look in the 'read Messages' box.

Hmmm, methinks that like the clams, you must have been living under a rock for the Last few months

I was in egypt and 'lived' in some pyramids and deep temples.

[ April 13, 2004, 08:27: Message edited by: calmon ]

[PDF]

Zapmeister,
Two things
- While you replied I edited my claim (not "clam" lol )that it was a "Rlyeh" strategy to a "water nation strategy"
- As for Rlyeh, did you test the new 2.11 paralyse ? It Lasts 3 (*three*) combat turns now, no more for the whole battle ... That will make Rlyeh's time *much* more difficult

But I agree that water gems should have more uses than clams and sea trolls

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
Hmmm, methinks that like the clams, you must have been living under a rock for the Last few months This issue has been discussed ad nauseum with several possible solutions proposed, including:

a) Changing the cost of clams
b) Balancing water magic, so there's other attractive things to do with your water gems
c) Removing/altering the Wish spell, to remove the inevitable endpoint of a huge astral income.

Or Illwinter could limit the number of clams each nation can use. After 10 or so pearls are made, there is no ambient mana left to make more pearls.

[Adept]

The confusion is because in Dom I one game turn is one season. In Dom II it's one month. No big deal, the game mechanics stay the same.

Clams are useful at times, but I've never felt the need to hoard them. Usually one has better uses for the water gems.