SUGGESTION: AI castle building algorithm - Page 2

tinkthank · #11 April 16th, 2004, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

I wonder how much "thinking" this would take. I usually comment that it doesnt matter how long it takes a turn to process because its a "pass turn file to host" type game. But AI improvements mostly affect solo players and improving the AI would do any good if it changes the game to something too slow to hold their attention.

As an SP nerd, I would gladly pay 400% in turn generation time for better AI without blinking, and probably 800% if it were pretty decent. But that is just my sole opinion.

Go Arralen go!

Gandalf Parker · #12 April 17th, 2004, 07:10 PM

I think Castle building is more important to an AI win than the spread of units purchased. And the formula would be easier to test. In fact if you turn on --scoredump you get an html with numbers for everything which would make the math much easier in later games (not have to count provinces and such)

ioticus · #13 April 17th, 2004, 11:53 PM

You mean it would be possible to download a mod that improves the AI and lets it build castles?! When can I download it?

Gandalf Parker · #14 April 18th, 2004, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by splooger:
You mean it would be possible to download a mod that improves the AI and lets it build castles?! When can I download it?

No the modding doesnt support directly changing the AI. Im just saying that we are more likely to get a small change to the linear AI than ever getting a complete rewrite.

There are some MODs in the work which might make a difference but as far as I can see they will have to be a mod for each nation you want AI'd. They would do things like make castles cheaper and remove the light units that the AI loves.

There are also some MAPs which strengthen the AIs.

[ April 17, 2004, 23:48: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

MStavros · #15 May 9th, 2004, 05:54 PM

All right, imho the AI should build castles like this:

code:

              Province

 Province - Castle & Province - Province

              Province

 Province - Castle & Province - Province 

              Province

Just multiply it in all directions.

[ May 09, 2004, 16:54: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Gandalf Parker · #16 May 9th, 2004, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MStavros:
All right, imho the AI should build castles like this:

code:
Province
Province - Castle & Province - Province
Province
Province - Castle & Province - Province
Province
Just multiply it in all directions.

OK now test it. Play a game pretending to be the AI and do that, faithfully. See if you can beat the AI's with it.

Leif_- · #17 May 9th, 2004, 07:01 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

Quote:

Originally posted by MStavros:
OK now test it. Play a game pretending to be the AI and do that, faithfully. See if you can beat the AI's with it.

Actually, he can't test it yet; as he haven't suggested any police for when the AI should build castles. As soon as it's got enough money at the start of a turn? If it's got enough money after recruiting units? And so on.

MStavros · #18 May 9th, 2004, 07:37 PM

Yes I any suggestions? The older replies here are very interesting btw.

[ May 09, 2004, 18:38: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Gandalf Parker · #19 May 9th, 2004, 09:06 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Leif_-:

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

Quote:

Originally posted by MStavros:
OK now test it. Play a game pretending to be the AI and do that, faithfully. See if you can beat the AI's with it.

Actually, he can't test it yet; as he haven't suggested any police for when the AI should build castles. As soon as it's got enough money at the start of a turn? If it's got enough money after recruiting units? And so on.

Yeah I was hoping he would notice it. If he blindly pursues his castle plan he would end up with no troops.

I figure the best castle-building time frame would be when the AI has enough money for a castle without saving. It would also be easiest to program. But his present configuration looks like it would be finding a location to build on at about the 12 turn into the game. Is that when one turns income is more than the cost of a castle?

delacroix · #20 May 9th, 2004, 09:10 PM

To take the fort-building suggestion in a slightly different direction, (maybe it will spur someone's creativity), is anyone complaining about the temple building algorithm the AI has? If not, wouldn't it be possible to modify the temple building AI into a temple-or-fort building AI? As in, if the temple check passes but too many temples exist, start to focus on forts? If no suitable fort location is found, then revert back to building a temple this turn. That could answer the "when" to build a fort, and "how" to accumulate resources for the fort. My post doesn't deal with "where" the fort should be built, others have proposed options for that.

But if the AI can afford to build 200gc temples, it can afford to build a 250gc fort. And if it can afford to build 2 temples over a span of a couple turns, it certainly could have instead afforded to build the 450gc castle, and so on...

I don't know how the temple-building AI works exactly, whether it only builds temples when it has the 200gc at the start of the turn, or whether it saves the 200 over the course of many turns. Either could be adapated to fort-building. In the latter you just save over more turns, in the former you can just store/save 200gc (or 250 would be a better option for the initial save) until enough money is accumulated to build that fort.

The temple building AI is rather decent at getting the job done, so it handles a lot of cases by itself. Early game it takes a while for the AI to build their temples, so the forts would naturally come after a certain proportion of temples were built. And the AI would start to build a fort or two when it hit that time period where the AI starts to fill up every province with a temple (IMO this is about the prime time when forts should be appearing). However, late-game if an AI was conquered to only a few remaining provinces and had a temple in each, the building-AI would say 'focus on building forts', but the "where" condition in most cases would prevent the castle from being built [unless of course one of those remaining provinces was some choke-point / high resource / not adajcent to another fort type condition]. So the AI wouldn't in most cases "waste" money building forts late-game when it had a small territory size.

Of course there'll be some holes in the idea and/or limitations since its quite a rough draft, but maybe it'll give someone a more 'developed' idea.