Vampire Queen mod

[PvK]

Originally posted by Catquiet:

quote:

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Originally posted by PvK:
... Personally I would tend to just reduce the combat skills of the VQ to achieve balance. Her powers make enough sense, but I don't expect her to also be a super-skilled warrior.

What kind of skill reduction would you suggest? Att 8 , Def 8 or maybe Att 12, Def 0?

[/QB]

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I had mis-remembered how skilled she was. She's not all that great, at ST 13, Att 12, Def 12. Being ethereal, regenerating, flying and without fatigue make her deadly when combined with heavy armor, perhaps boots of quickness, and a dominion HP bonus on top of 23 base HP.

A summoned Vampire Lord is actually better, at ST 15, Att 13, Def 13, except that a pretender may have innate magic benefits, too.

So on second thought, I guess I wouldn't reduce the VQ's skills much or at all. Maybe just reduce Defense and/or Strength by 1-3 points. Or not.

Without redefining all the vampires in the game, I don't think there's much else to do. I suppose she's a good SC pretender for early expansion, of which there are others, and 110 points seems a reasonable price, no?

It might be nice to add some anti-vampire weapons, since the ethereal/flying/regenerating/immortal/life drain combo is pretty strong. On the other hand, there are already several very potent anti-undead weapons which will work, from banishment to the various triple-damage vs. undead magic weapons, and undead-bLasting magic spells and artillery items.

PvK

[HotNifeThruButr]

If you had anti-vampire weapons like Holy Water, or Garlic, or Garlic soaked in Holy Water. Then you better have weapons against other pretenders too so you don't make vampire queens incredibly underpowered.

Edit: I like the Pomegranate seeds idea

edit 2: fixed pomegranate spelling

[ April 19, 2004, 00:59: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by PvK:
Without redefining all the vampires in the game, I don't think there's much else to do. I suppose she's a good SC pretender for early expansion, of which there are others, and 110 points seems a reasonable price, no?

She's much more dangerous late game than in the early, as it's fairly easy to forge a couple of items to cover every weakness other than being undead. And there are very few nations that have access to lots of death mages for dust to dust.

On the other hand, there are already several very potent anti-undead weapons which will work, from banishment to the various triple-damage vs. undead magic weapons, and undead-bLasting magic spells and artillery items.

Banishment won't work as a counter to anything but the most pathetic of undead units. It even has trouble against soul gate's undead with their high MR. The various anti-undead weapons will work ,
_if_ you can put them on something that won't be killed by breath of winter + soul vortex + fire shield, and that can hit her through a defense of more than 20 with several mirror images (quickness + sword of swiftness + experience boosts).

If double and triple elemental immunity were only avaliable from artifact class items with some other drawbacks then more nations would be able to counter her without building a comparable SC. As it currently stands however, the only real contenders for the job are C'Tis and Machaka. Everyone else should hope they get really lucky and find a Harab Seraph province to build enough death mages to counter a tricked out VQ.

[Zapmeister]

So how would you mod the VQ, Graeme?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
So how would you mod the VQ, Graeme?

How would I do it? I'm not entirely sure. I'd probably increase her cost to 150 points to represent the fact that she's a better combat unit than the other immortals. I'd also increase the costs for new paths to somewhere between 50 and 80 so that she's less versatile. I'd try and make it so that Ermor would have to make a choice between a powerful combat pretender, and a powerful mage pretender, and not be able to have both in one package.

I'd really rather mod all the items however, so that none of them gave more than the 75% resist from the dragon scale armors. If you want multiple immunities, then you have to spend at least two slots to get them, which would leave you open to the other types of magic that you'll encounter.

[Yossar]

I think I would keep or slightly decrease her cost and then bump her path cost way up, maybe to 80. Hardly anyone complains about vampire lords because they only get access to death and blood. It's only when you add in all the support spells that things start getting a bit ridiculous. Ermor can probably still afford a pretty badass VQ, but that's just the nature of Ermor.

[Norfleet]

The problem with raising any costs is that you'll sabotage any games that presently exist: Every single game with one in it will be instantly rendered effectively unplayable. That can thus effectively be ruled out as an option. It would make more sense to lower the costs of other, currently considered unattractive, pretender chassis to make them more viable options.

Of course, as Graeme points out, the real issue at hand is probably the fact that Elemental Armor is TOO nice: Full immunity to any kind of elemental attack really reduces the number of ways you have to kill a tricked out no-encumberance SC with high defense and many shields....which can be done with more than just the VQ. If Elemental Armor was reduced to 75/all instead of full 100/all, as Graeme suggested, the problem would be far less pronounced.