Vampire Queen mod

[SelfishGene]

Has anyone tried modding Mistform instead of Ethereal for all vampire units and tried that out instead? Vampire myths aren't always consistent on how exactly they should be killed; Carmilla, for example, written in the 1840's, seems to emphisise decapitation and burning as well as staking. And neither are peculiarly magical forms of attack.

From some tests its clear any flying unit with regen, life drain, ethereal, mistform, MI, quickness, high prot/attack is going to kick ***, just some kick it more than others.

Another giant problem is life drain that early in the game. Once successful attack replenishes her fatigue, which is just as if not more important than the life siphoned off.

The basic problem with the VQ is that she just simply has too many natural spell effects. Get rid of a couple of them and she should be alright.

IMO get rid of fear (beauty), replace ethereal with mistform (so she has to use a cloak instead of armor) (and should be done for all vampires), remove regen (already has life drain), strength to 10 or 11. And maybe change Life Drain globally to not siphon or remove as much fatigue.

Edit: and change Immortality to not work if unit is fatigued out (100+).

[ April 20, 2004, 03:22: Message edited by: SelfishGene ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by SelfishGene:
Another giant problem is life drain that early in the game. Once successful attack replenishes her fatigue, which is just as if not more important than the life siphoned off.

The fatigue replenishment isn't important at all to a 0 encumbrance unit unless you are dealing with lots of opponents with air or astral magic.

And maybe change Life Drain globally to not siphon or remove as much fatigue.

This would harm all the non-undead units a huge amount more than the undead ones.

Edit: and change Immortality to not work if unit is fatigued out (100+).

Including the Liches? That would make them utterly useless as they will always be fatigued as spellcasters. I don't see why reforming their bodies automatically should have anything to do with whether they are conscious or not.

[SelfishGene]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
The fatigue replenishment isn't important at all to a 0 encumbrance unit unless you are dealing with lots of opponents with air or astral magic.

....

This would harm all the non-undead units a huge amount more than the undead ones.

...

Including the Liches? That would make them utterly useless as they will always be fatigued as spellcasters. I don't see why reforming their bodies automatically should have anything to do with whether they are conscious or not.

Hmm probably right, i added that suggestion without thinking it through as much at the end of the post. I also forgot the VQ was a 0 encumberance unit. However, fatigue does degrade a units defense and makes it easier to hit, and a VQ does have to accumulate some fatigue to cast her support magic. It might only help 10%, but it would help if that starting fatigue stayed with her longer. But your right about the immortality.

An ideal solution might be to change the Undead attribute into a unique Vampire attribute. That way you could easily add certain balancing weaknesses. Vampires are certainly undead but i think you could make a case that they are sufficiently different in the fiction to merit their own catagory. After all you don't have to die to become a vampire, or at least 'death' has some different meaning than death for something like an undead zombie.

[Kel]

[quote]Originally posted by SelfishGene:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
[qb]After all you don't have to die to become a vampire, or at least 'death' has some different meaning than death for something like an undead zombie.

In a sense, this already exists, though it isn't specific to just vampires. There are undead, such as VQ, and then there are mindless undead, such as souless, skellies, etc. However, a lot of anti-SC spells that make use of this distinction, like soul slay and paralyze(which work vs. undead, just not mindless units), are MR based and thus, not terribly effective against even an economy pretender.

Not saying they should, necessarily, since it would make other SC pretenders worse. Of course, with immortality, I don't think it would be imbalanced...heck, instead of all teh complicated options, maybe all the VQ needs is an innately low MR

- Kel

[Taqwus]

Dropping the immunity that undead have to Vengeance of the Dead might also help. Let mindless commanders be immune -- without a mind, it's probably hard to dream -- but those with minds, sure. Unless the idea is that undead don't sleep and therefore don't dream?

[E. Albright]

Originally posted by Cohen:
I'd remove Immortality first of all. Vampires can be killed.

Um. This depends a lot on just what mythology one uses as one's point of reference. I've ran into some (Middle Eastern? It's been a while and I'm not sure) tales speaking of a critter which wasn't frightfully powerful whilst alive (and not REALLY dead, and also capable of seeing daylight, an' some other "non-standard" stuff), but to kill it (and keep it dead) one would have to decapitate it, burn the head and body seprately, and scatter the respective ashes in such a way that ne'er the twain would meet. Or go with (Russian?) ones that posit a more lichy vampire, who would be physically strong, and when killed (in whatever unexceptional manner one chose), would need to be burnt... but when ya tried to burn it, a host of vermin (rats, newts, snakes, worms, etc.) would issue forth from the body with no goal but escape. And if one solitary lil' critter got away, well, all that hard work killin' an' burnin' yer vamp would go up in smoke...

[Edit: oh, and the bit about seperating heads and bodies (lest death not be fatal) pops up in some of the European vampire myths, too.]

[ April 20, 2004, 16:50: Message edited by: E. Albright ]

[mivayan]

The Fly is very useful, but I'd change it ... Vampires fly as bats, so it would be nice if this flying movement wouldn't allow to attack cause it's assumed the Vampire is in his bat form ... well he could change aspect at will ... but we've to limit it.

Perhaps remove the flying ability and have it shapechange into a vampiric bat? The bat would be immortal, flying, head+misc+misc slots and have harpy-like stats.

But to get it consistent you would have to do the same for other vampires - shapechanging non-commanders might not work too well.

Removing regen would probably make the vq rack up a LOT of afflictions with the low base hp, but they go away quick. So why not?

[ April 20, 2004, 21:47: Message edited by: mivayan ]