Comparison of Knights

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by tinkthank:

code:

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     Van     Man     Ulm     Tien     Marig



hp      13      14      15      10      14

prot	13	20	24	15	20

moral	12	15	15	15	15

MR	14	13	9	12	12

str	11	12	13	10	12

attk	12	12	12	12	13

 

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Code-tags do wonders. Although I don't understand why hp-column needs so many spaces...

I haven't tried Vanir with bless effects of DomII, but with something like Blood-6, Fire-6 of Dom:PPP they were quite good... They can't kill off heavily armored units, like the knights, but their high defence keeps them alive for quite a long time.

[ April 21, 2004, 13:20: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

[reverend]

Maybe I over-read it, but you didn't include the Black Knight in your analysis of the stats.

Black Knights are my favoured heavy cavalry. They have superior protection, HP and strength. Their weakness is their slow speed, but in combination with the overall slow Ulm army, it doesn't usually show. MR is an issue, and possibly low defense. They, however, do have the first-strike of the lance. Gold costs are the lowest of all heavy cavalry, but like all Ulm troops they need a lot of resources. Compared to (esp.) Van or Tien, this is a major drawback if you are in an area without many high-res provinces. The difference to Man and Marignon is negligible as the difference in gold is larger.

That said, I have worse experiences with all kinds of heavy cavalry than I had with Black Knights. Man heavy cavalry and Marignon specifically. I typically use a small group of Knights for expansion in the beginning, and while I always loose some with Man or Marignon, I have yet to loose Black Knights during that phase. Then again, that may be just the "Ulm heavy armor" factor against Independents.

[ April 21, 2004, 15:48: Message edited by: reverend ]

[tinkthank]

@reverend: sorry, I sort of excluded the BN because I think it's a no-contest vs. the other two "heavy" knight units as far as cost/usage goes. BNs cost less originally, but since they are not sacred you pay through the nose for upkeep. The KofA is also not sacred, but he is worth it IMO, and recuperation is just great. Also, the BN'S low MR makes them sitting ducks later in the game.

@endoperez: How did you format that please?

[Gateway103]

@endoperez: How did you format that please? [/QB]

I am not Endoperez, but I can help you with that.
Simply add the tags "code" and "/code" before and after, replacing quotation mark with square brackets, and type the info between as you would want it to appear.

To see an example, use QUOTE on Endoperez's post, and see how he formated the columns. It really is an easy yet useful tag ^_^

-Gateway103

[tinkthank]

Originally posted by Endoperez:

quote:

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Originally posted by tinkthank:

code:

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     Van     Man     Ulm     Tien     Marig



hp      13      14      15      10      14

prot	13	20	24	15	20

moral	12	15	15	15	15

MR	14	13	9	12	12

str	11	12	13	10	12

attk	12	12	12	12	13

 

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Code-tags do wonders. Although I don't understand why hp-column needs so many spaces...

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Ah ok -- thanks much. I just type how he did it and it automatically takes the nice formatting of my wordpad? (I thought "code" stood for something I must then enter, like a long number or whatever.) Thanks!

[Patrik]

I like the Vans as well, however, the low strength+spear combo (damage only 14!) is hurting them and without some bless effects I think there are several more priceworthy options.

My absolute favorite cavalry for the moment (although it can hardly be called a knight unit) is Pangeas Centaur Warrior (CW). These are the stats:

code:

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hp           20

prot         11

mor          12

MR           13

str          13

att          10 

def          16

mov         3/29

gold/res   40/11

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These stats are quite good in themselves, (except for prot and attack), however, what makes CWs shine are their wonderful 'add-ons'

1. Berserk +3. This is a Nature 8 blessing for free! Very nice increase to protection, attack and damage. Defense will decrease to 13, which however still is quite decent.
2. Recuperation. Due to the low prot the CWs will get hurt a lot, however they have a good chance of surviving thanks to the 20 hp. I see very few afflictions among my squads with 2 or 3 stars veterans.
3. Sneaky. Only Vanheim has better (but more expensive) sneaking troops
4. Forest survival. Most importantly, this makes it possible to take full advantage of the strategic move of 3.
5. Hoof damage = Strength. Normal cavalry have a somewhat useless Hoof attack with damage 10 (strength not added). Pangeans Hoof damage is 0 with strength added. For CWs that means 13 normal, then 16! when they go berserk.

Since I use CWs as the core of my Pangean armies, I can easily afford to take sloth 2, giving me points to spend elsewhere.

Buffs are an issue by itself, but IMO a Pan casting Summon Earth Power/Legions of Steel/Strength of Giants on a squad of CWs with Hold and Attack orders will create a truly awesome force, capable of taking on any standard troops. And then of course there is Mass Protection.

/Patrik

[Huzurdaddi]

I find Van's with a good bless effect ( water anyone? ) to be almost silly good. Sure they don't kill quickly due to their low damage attack, but they sure don't take any damage either ( their defence becomes silly ). Add in the glamour ability and you will have units with lots of experience stars in no time. And that only makes the defence go higher! Yokies.

Sadly I find bless effects pretty costly in general. You are pretty much giving up on a really effective SC when you go for a big bless effect ( like water 10 wooooot ).