TDM-Modpack politics in really big game

[jc173]

quote:

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Originally posted by LCC:
In my really big game it is now turn 10. I have met the Rage and they immediately turned Murderous declaring war. Is that normal ?

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Yes, unless you are a much more powerful empire when you meet them, the Rage pretty much automatically declare war. They're a pretty psychotic race. Kind of like Skynet leading the Berserkers.

quote:

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The Cue Cappa accepted my gift of resources 4000/3000/3000 with trade treaty then cancelled two turns later. Maybe it is because I planted a colony on a sphere world in one of their home systems. I am not claiming systems as I colonize so the attack location thing should not be the problem, or is it ?

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Not sure, I think the AI will that a threat anyhow. At least I've seen them attack my colonies like that previously, even though the system itself wasn't contested on the border display map.

[Atraikius]

Your problem with the CueCappa may have been from the Last two line of the politics file, where it tells the AI the limits for it to continue trading with you. I f they also had their anger towards you increase, it may have been boosted by the ;get made over allied colonizable planets' setting.

In my really big game it is turn 20. Politics are as follows. Initial score/rank in parenthesis, then current score/rank, then current number tech levels, then current systems/planets, then units/ships/bases, then wars-w/no treaty-n/treaty-t, then my relation with the race. I am at war with Drushocka, Rage, and Sallegra by their choice. I still have no treaty with the Cue Cappa, but they never declared war - cautious I guess. I am behind schedule on race contact, slowed by the war effort. My ships are light cruisers except three colony. The LC are population transports with three mine launch bays (330 pop/ 6 small mines) except a half dozen retrofitted to missile (!) ships to defend the Central system. I do not have shield tech so cannot afford beam fights. My trade treaties give me very good dividends, well worth the effort. With my mines being swept at four planets, I have switched production to small mines with only one 300 kt warhead, which is 2/3 the cost in minerals and 1/2 the cost in radioactives of a two warhead mine. About half my planets have a base space yard in orbit on repeat build of mines. I am at 500k minerals throwing away 40k per turn due to lack of storage for a total loss since start of game of about 1000k minerals, which breaks my heart but the AI do no better. I am half full on organics at +20k. I am quarter full on radioactives at +5k. I just built my first intelligence center at a sphereworld. It took me this long to plant, build a yard, and build a base yard plus some mines and misc facilities. I have planted only Rock/None and am defending Central and the ten nexus sphere worlds. I have moved over 1000k population to all of them. Except for Ike the original home planets are still nearly full on population, cranking out a transport LC every two turns. The Ike nexus homeworlds have just now switched to building base space yards every 3-4 turns, with space yard 3. The next step is to have the nexus worlds colonize their 3-6 secondary sphereworlds. Once those are secure I can start thinking about the 900 large planets... I have planted then abandoned eight ruins worlds searching for useful tech starting two turns ago. The Sergetti have not gone Mega Evil Empire since I set the level to 5000k rather than 500k. It seemed ridiculous to me to see anybody going MEE before turn 70.

Sergetti ------- (213.6/16) 513.9/01 - 58 - 05/25 - 0082/57/11 - 2w/1n/1t - TR Warm
Clays(me) --- (213.0/18) 462.8/02 - 58 - 20/30 - 1426/40/18 - 3w/1n/9t - myself
Krill ------------ (220.1/11) 450.9/03 - 41 - 03/19 - 0069/52/00 - 1w/1n/5t - TR Cool
Pyrochette -- (287.6/01) 444.5/04 - 62 - 05/20 - 0406/28/05 - 1w/0n/1t - not met
Rage ---------- (261.7/03) 431.3/05 - 53 - 09/24 - 0394/41/03 - 2w/2n/4t - War Displeased
Cryslonite --- (218.9/12) 420.9/06 - 49 - 06/20 - 0246/41/02 - 1w/1n/1t - not met
Sallegra ------ (220.2/10) 420.7/07 - 51 - 05/28 - 0177/29/06 - 1w/0n/7t - War Murderous
Amonkrie ---- (235.5/05) 397.7/08 - 50 - 03/42 - 0337/17/00 - no contacts with any - colonizing
Drushocka -- (213.9/15) 381.4/09 - 46 - 06/25 - 0098/28/03 - 1w/0n/4t - War Angry
Abbidon ------ (217.2/13) 380.4/10 - 38 - 04/33 - 0168/29/01 - 0w/1n/0t - not met
Toron ---------- (278.8/02) 369.5/11 - 62 - 06/18 - 0901/18/02 - 1w/0n/5t - MA Brotherly
Eee ------------ (223.9/08) 365.2/12 - 35 - 08/33 - 0248/15/00 - no contacts with any - colonizing
Narn ----------- (257.6/04) 359.1/13 - 49 - 10/14 - 0296/25/02 - 1w/3n/3t - TR Amiable
Toltayan ----- (213.1/07) 351.7/14 - 40 - 05/18 - 0243/30/00 - 2w/1n/0t - meet on his turn
Cue Cappa -- (211.7/20) 346.3/15 - 42 - 06/19 - 0106/23/03 - 0w/5n/5t - none Warm
Xi Chung ----- (212.1/19) 345.9/16 - 39 - 06/15 - 1168/47/04 - 2w/0n/3t - T Murderous
Piundan ------ (226.8/07) 324.0/17 - 49 - 06/17 - 0992/28/01 - 1w/0n/1t - MA Warm
Phong --------- (228.3/06) 296.1/18 - 41 - 04/17 - 0063/21/00 - 1w/0n/1t - TR Receptive
Colonials ---- (220.5/09) 277.7/19 - 50 - 05/13 - 1424/17/01 - 1w/1n/2t - MA Receptive
Ukra Tal ----- (216.0/14) 201.3/20 - 37 - 04/12 - 0058/15/00 - 2w/1n/4t - TR Brotherly

Notice that those races not at war are actively colonizing and will eventually surpass all others (except hopefully me). Most of the Sergetti and Krill score is in those ships, so they are not the threat they seem. Perhaps the AI would be better off doing at least a modest amount of colonization even during war time. The Colonials, Piundan, Toron, and Xichung in particular would have been better off colonizing than building that huge stockpile of fighters. With three wars to fight losing mines (launched mines not in my score) and population to shift I have not done any colonizing myself in a long time, but that will soon change....

The Ukra Tal are caught between the Rage and the Krill. They have lost three homeworlds. I guess they are gonna die....

I am about to lose my treaty with Xichung. I am stalling off his break treaty by giving a resources gift (which he refuses) to keep him from initiating a message on his own. Definitely a stop gap measure till my colony gets defended since he just keeps getting more angry.... I expect a problem with the Krill soon. I will not make that mistake again.

In my really big game it is turn 30. I am posting a Winzip zip file with the start and turn 30 in Scenario/Mod Archive Space Empires IV Maps and Scenarios. Politics are as follows - initial score/ rank in parenthesis, then turn 20 score/ rank in parenthesis, then current score/ rank, then current number tech levels, then current systems/ planets/ colony ships with turn 20 systems/ planets in parenthesis, then units/ ships/ bases, then wars-w/ no treaty-n/ treaty-t, then my relation with the race. I am at war with the Cue Cappa, Drushocka, Rage, and Sallegra by their choice. Once a race goes to war with me my policy is to never offer peace. I am almost done with race contact, with two tanker ships on the way to home systems of Eee and Abbidon. I just made contact with the Amonkrie Last turn (refused gift treaty), and the Krill just broke treaty. The Xichung are likely to break any time now. My ships are a mix of light cruisers and cruisers except three colony. My trade treaties give me very good dividends, well worth the effort. See production and trade analysis below. I am producing small mines with only one 300 kt warhead, which is 2/3 the cost in minerals and 1/2 the cost in radioactives of a two warhead mine, due to active minesweeping. I am mining the ten warp points of Central with 100 mines each on both sides. I also am mining warp points near the borders of my original home systems. Most of my planets have two base space yards in orbit on repeat build of mines (some have more - see Ike) for a total of 480 mines per turn. I have started doing storage facilities for minerals and organics. I am nearly full on minerals at +6k. I am full up 500k on organics at +36k. I am half full on radioactives at +6k. I stopped building intelligence centers because nobody else was doing it yet. I have not built any research centers and do not plan to until I must, because my trade treaties are letting me research faster than anybody else already. Why improve the trade partners research ?

Notice the Abbidon, Eee and Piundan have improved seven ranks due to industrial development, while the Krill have fallen six. Stalled races with less than about 50 points gain are the Krill, Sallegra, Cue Cappa (low colonization, war with me) and the Toron, Narn (low colonization, building fighters).

Clays(me) ----- (213.0/18) (462.8/02) 773.5/01 - 80 - 22/35/03 (20/30) - 3957/75/48 - 4w/2n/11t - myself
Sergetti -------- (213.6/16) (513.9/01) 753.0/02 - 68 - 05/34/01 (05/25) - 0204/88/15 - 2w/3n/03t - TR Warm
Abbidon ------- (217.2/13) (380.4/10) 614.9/03 - 46 - 04/39/02 (04/33) - 0235/66/06 - 0w/1n/00t - not met
Rage ----------- (261.7/03) (431.3/05) 588.2/04 - 61 - 09/31/01 (09/24) - 0922/63/04 - 2w/1n/06t - War Mod
Eee ------------- (223.9/08) (365.2/12) 578.2/05 - 44 - 11/48/03 (08/33) - 0433/30/00 - 0w/1n/02t - not met
Pyrochette --- (287.6/01) (444.5/04) 554.1/06 - 66 - 05/29/00 (05/20) - 0762/31/06 - 1w/1n/04t - TR Receptive
Cryslonite ---- (218.9/12) (420.9/06) 547.8/07 - 62 - 06/26/03 (06/20) - 0275/58/02 - 1w/0n/04t - TA Warm
Amonkrie ----- (235.5/05) (397.7/08) 520.7/08 - 62 - 08/68/12 (03/42) - 0594/28/00 - 0w/2n/00t - none Mod
Krill ------------- (220.1/11) (450.9/03) 494.6/09 - 50 - 03/20/01 (03/19) - 0077/60/00 - 2w/2n/08t - none Mur
Piundan ------- (226.8/07) (324.0/17) 493.1/10 - 60 - 06/22/02 (06/17) - 1196/57/02 - 1w/2n/04t - MA Receptive
Drushocka --- (213.9/15) (381.4/09) 483.7/11 - 54 - 06/28/01 (06/25) - 0172/40/03 - 1w/0n/07t - War Displeased
Sallegra ------- (220.2/10) (420.7/07) 468.0/12 - 57 - 05/32/00 (05/28) - 0230/34/06 - 1w/1n/07t - War Mur
Toltayan ------ (213.1/07) (351.7/14) 446.1/13 - 45 - 05/20/01 (05/18) - 0248/49/00 - 2w/0n/03t - TR Botherly
Xi Chung ----- (212.1/19) (345.9/16) 420.3/14 - 51 - 06/17/02 (06/15) - 2148/56/06 - 2w/4n/03t - TR Murderous
Toron ---------- (278.8/02) (369.5/11) 412.1/15 - 68 - 06/21/00 (06/18) - 1074/17/02 - 1w/2n/10t - P Brotherly
Narn ----------- (257.6/04) (359.1/13) 410.5/16 - 57 - 11/18/00 (10/14) - 1128/33/02 - 2w/1n/05t - TR Brotherly
Cue Cappa -- (211.7/20) (346.3/15) 391.7/17 - 50 - 06/21/00 (06/19) - 0165/27/02 - 1w/0n/09t - War Angry
Phong --------- (228.3/06) (296.1/18) 362.4/18 - 46 - 04/19/00 (04/17) - 0074/29/00 - 1w/0n/06t - MA Brotherly
Colonials ----- (220.5/09) (277.7/19) 336.7/19 - 71 - 06/17/00 (05/13) - 1662/23/01 - 2w/0n/03t - P Brotherly
Ukra Tal ------ (216.0/14) (201.3/20) 278.9/20 - 45 - 05/14/01 (04/12) - 0058/26/00 - 2w/3n/07t - TR Brotherly

Except for the Sergetti, Eee, Pyrochette, and Amonkrie colonizing is less than one per two turns. I changed my own plans because I want at least 100 mines delivered at plant to each new colony so that it is secure. I could not do that at the rate planned. I currently have scheduled colonization of 9 sphere worlds, mostly in the territory of allies who plant rock colonies. I am very surprised by the failure of the AI to colonize them, particularly in home systems. The 50 sphere worlds were created as a magnet to suck population off of homeworlds so that by capturing a single planet I could get population to colonize other atmospheres. As of turn 30 the planting status is one each by six (Drushocka, Toron, Pyrochette, Rage, Piundan, Narn), but none by seven (Krill, Sallegra, Toltayan, Xi Chung, Cue Cappa, Phong, Colonials). The fighter races continue to stockpile them, even though many worlds are full up and getting no storage available. I also noticed that some have space yard ships attempting to move which are producing a ship. Also some are attempting to load cargo into full ships. The Pyrochette recently have been repeatedly trying to do illegal refits. Though mine sweepers are active the AI continues to demolish its ships and fleets against known mine fields. I am sticking to mines and missile ships heavily armed with PD since the Rage have PPB V and the Krill have large fleets of torpedo launchers. I tried out the massive shield depleter but it is one shot and usually misses. It is not worth giving up two missile slots. I will be building medium weapon platforms with PSG V, PD V, missiles V, and a PPB V heavy mount when I get the tech. I can build one per three turns on a base yard, or I can build 30 mines. Until the AI sweeps a field of 100 I will stick to mines plus one missile ship to kill the mine sweepers...

You might be interested in a production and trade analysis, ranked by total minerals. First is the current rank by total score, then number trade partners, then values (in thousands). Order is minerals, organics, radioactives with each giving production/ trade/ total/ current balance rate/ stockpile. Last is research giving production and total with trade included. Notice that a half dozen are building lots of research centers, which is smart. The Abbidon and Sergetti are refining while the Eee are refining like crazy for some reason (racial bonus aside). I am the only one not running a good surplus in minerals, because I built bases. My radioactives are going into mines, while the Rage are eating theirs building ships with PPB. The Xichung are running low on organics for their weapons. The AI should have built bases or colonies to use its surplus, in particular notice the Toron and Pyrochette building maintenance free fighters. Neither has any carriers so I suppose they are for defending the building planet. The Ukra Tal are doing well considering they lost three home worlds. They may survive now that the Krill hate me more.

Clays(me) --- 01 - 11 - 122/246/368/+005/649 - 14/27/42/+34/500 - 014/41/056/+05/227 - 053/172
Toron ---------- 15 - 10 - 178/150/327/+255/500 - 20/15/35/+32/500 - 027/20/047/+39/530 - 101/124
Cue Cappa -- 17 - 09 - 122/155/278/+219/500 - 15/18/33/+31/500 - 018/23/042/+36/520 - 087/111
Sallegra ------ 12 - 07 - 145/131/276/+190/620 - 31/13/45/+44/540 - 021/18/039/+25/268 - 101/134
Pyrochette -- 06 - 04 - 241/030/271/+176/500 - 16/03/19/+18/451 - 032/04/036/+20/530 - 090/090
Krill ------------ 09 - 08 - 142/122/265/+138/540 - 05/13/28/+26/500 - 019/16/036/+20/504 - 077/108
Sergetti ------ 02 - 03 - 222/036/259/+119/740 - 17/04/21/+19/500 - 055/04/060/+40/590 - 083/090
Amonkrie --- 08 - 00 - 248/000/248/+185/820 - 24/00/24/+20/505 - 031/00/031/+25/456 - 109/109
Drushocka - 11 - 07 - 173/071/245/+153/620 - 16/10/26/+24/500 - 020/11/032/+24/498 - 097/121
Rage --------- 04 - 06 - 187/050/237/+105/768 - 12/06/19/+16/460 - 026/07/031/+05/290 - 095/095
Piundan ----- 10 - 04 - 190/034/224/+121/660 - 17/04/21/+18/500 - 019/05/024/+11/577 - 056/063
Narn ---------- 16 - 05 - 156/066/223/+144/500 - 15/07/22/+21/500 - 025/08/034/+29/500 - 081/099
Ukra Tal ----- 20 - 07 - 088/126/219/+178/500 - 16/15/32/+26/359 - 011/17/028/+25/500 - 051/106
Eee ----------- 05 - 02 - 184/006/190/+108/720 - 22/01/22/+79/487 - 100/01/101/+91/620 - 107/107
Cryslonite -- 07 - 04 - 140/049/189/+057/520 - 24/06/31/+26/520 - 025/06/031/+13/429 - 093/101
Phong --------18 - 06 - 137/052/189/+123/520 - 14/06/21/+20/500 - 017/07/025/+18/383 - 073/082
Colonials --- 19 - 03 - 141/045/186/+126/540 - 15/07/22/+21/500 - 022/07/030/+12/500 - 055/077
Xi Chung --- 14 - 03 - 102/063/165/+069/500 - 19/09/28/+10/124 - 016/09/025/+18/500 - 052/078
Toltayan --- 13 - 03 - 125/026/151/+049/500 - 16/02/19/+17/500 - 031/03/034/+19/520 - 071/074
Abbidon --- 03 - 00 - 146/000/146/+031/680 - 30/00/30/+27/540 - 045/00/045/+34/560 - 106/106


[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 25 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 25 May 2001).]

The size of this file is 14kb but zipped only 6kb. I made it using AOL which looked flakey in wordpad so I will not make that mistake again....

The file contains questions about the AI politics and a proposed strategy for colonizing all 7000 planets, with end game targeted about turn 250. Expected score exceeds 25 million and racial experience increases by over 700000.

If you were one of the TDM-Modpack racial designers, or have experience with the AI politics files, then I would appreciate some answers either in the forum or by email to LCClay1@aol.com

I notice suicide_junkie has some Posts as big as my file, so I am pasting the source of the previous post zip file into this post so it can be read without aol.

I am at turn 31 and have reviewed my plans for colonizing sphereworlds. I have 35 colonies now (20 sphereworlds). I have plans for 16 colonizing fleets (carrying 1000 population and 100 mines each) to depart within the next 10 turns. That takes me up to 51 colonies, which is considerably more than all but the Sergetti (48). Now that would be nice but there is a catch. In my experience the AI break treaty commenting on your taking too many planets at about colony 43-47. So I can get away with this burst of colonization, but with no trade treaties I will be hard pressed to continue my expansion to the remaining 210+ systems. I have questions.

1) Does the TDM-Modpack AI break treaty based on your total number colonies, or colonies in systems he claims, or on your colonies he has actually seen, or on some other basis ? I already know about the per attack location and per ally ship things, but is there any other factor I am missing ? Below is a racial anger summary percent allied/ per attack location. Following each race is regular decrease and minimum anger then relation. Last comes estimated number of colonies that will be ok. Is that minimum anger forever, or just when you first meet ? If I can believe this then I should make peace with the Rage until I go MEE now that he is over his initial reaction !! If the regular decrease is 2 and the race gets mad at 20 % and per attack is 2, then with over five colonies seen you lose ground every turn. Is that right ? If so then as the AI explores and sees more of my colonies, they will get angry very soon....

0/2 Eee -4/0 not met - any
0/2 Phong -4/0 brotherly MA 15 - any
0/2 Toltayan -4/0 brotherly TR 9 - any
0/3 Rage -2/30 moderate war - make peace ? - any

10/2 Cue Cappa -4/0 angry war - make peace ? - 20
10/2 Ukra Tal -4/0 brotherly TR 20 - 20
10/2 Colonials -3/0 brotherly P 16 - 15
10/2 Piundan -2/20 receptive MA 15 - 10

20/2 Narn -3/0 brotherly TR 20 - 7
20/2 Toron -3/0 brotherly P 20 - 7
20/2 Sallegra -3/0 murderous war - make peace ? - 7
20/2 Amonkrie -2/30 moderate TA 0 just did - 5

30/2 Abbidon -3/0 not met - 5
30/2 Drushocka -3/0 displeased war - 5
30/2 Cryslonite -2/20 warm TA 7 - 3
30/2 Sergetti -2/30 warm TR 20 - 3

35/5 Pyrochette -3/0 receptive TR 7 hmmm...... - 1
40/2 Krill -2/20 murderous just broke treaty but not war yet - 2
40/5 Xichung -1/20 Murderous (break soon ?) TR 20 - half a colony ?
The Xichung will hate anybody they trade with ! Is that right ? It seems they are as confused as the Rage! There must be some other factor operating besides regular decrease, otherwise they would have broken treaty long ago!

Ship Anger is also interesting. Nobody cares about ships except as noted below. Values are per no treaty/ per ally/ per enemy ship
Love allied fleets! Narn 1/-1/1 Toron 1/-1/1
Do not get mad at enemies! Amonkrie 2/0/0 Cryslonite 1/0/0 Krill 1/0/0
Ally ships ok Colonials 1/0/1 Piundan 1/0/1 Rage 3/0/2 Sergetti 2/0/1 Xichung 3/0/4
Mad at any ships Pyrochette 2/1/3

If I can believe that, then my relations with the Krill will be better if I declare war ! And is it my total ships known by treaty (impossible!), ships seen (not likely), or just those in systems claimed by the AI ? In any case it looks like I have a problem with the Pyrochette. I do not want to change any of the settings, but would appreciate any insights offered by the race creaters.

2) I plan on building battle cruiser (BC) yard ships with master computer, six engines, solar sail, quantum reactor, cloak - basics plus yard III and the remainder 500 cargo, which can carry a medium WP and build base yards for a new colony. It will be accompanied on initial entry into each system by three dreadnought attack ships (sweep 4x5, 7 PD, 2 WMG heavy mount) to kill mine sweepers. Next in the fleet is two BC mine sweepers with the basics plus ten mine sweep V for a total of sweep 100. The mine sweepers each carry cargo 1750. Next in the fleet is a minelayer BC with the basics plus 13 mine layers and two cargo to 1280. It is needed in case the enemy has sensors to see past the cloaking. Last is a light cruiser (LC) population transport with basics plus four mine layers and six cargo to 1740 to shift population and mines to secondary planets once the primary planet is planted. Now they go into an enemy system and park over an unused large planet near the center of the system. The yard builds a single engine colony ship in two turns, which plants. The next turn a cargo facility III is built, the minesweepers and LC transport drop 425 population (pop) and 350 mines (launch ten) into the planet and the yard drops the weapons platform. Then the minesweepers and mine layer return to a sphereworld system for more pop and mines. The planet and yard follow the schedule below while the LC is mothballed till colonies start planting (or it could mine enemy yard planets). The schedule is for a new system to plant a colony every turn with 100 mines and at least 14 pop. For this you need one base yard to build the colony, and five yards to build mines taking into account attrition from enemy attacks. You also need at least three yards to build attack ships or weapons platforms. Legend : CF3 - cargo facility III, UPC - urban pacification center III, SY3 - space yard facility III, BY - base space yard, NOT - not built yet, MIN - mines, LCT - LC transport, ATT - attack ships or weapon platforms, COL - colony ship, and time moves left to right.

prime col ------ CF3 UPC UPC SY3 SY3 SY3 SY3 SY3 BY4 BY4 BY4 BY9 BY9 BY9 facilities
Yard Ship ----- BY1 BY1 BY1 BY1 BY2 BY2 BY2 BY2 BY5 BY5 BY5 BY5 - return to sphere world
BY1 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT BY3 BY3 BY3 BY3 BY6 BY6 BY6 BY6 LCT LCT LCT ATT forever
BY2 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT BY7 BY7 BY7 BY7 LCT LCT LCT ATT forever
BY3 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT BY8 BY8 BY8 BY8 LCT LCT LCT ATT forever
BY4 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN forever
BY5 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN forever
BY6 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN forever
BY7 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN forever
BY8 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN forever
BY9 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT COL forever

secondary ----- SY3 SY3 SY3 SY3 SY3 BY1 BY1 BY1 BY2 BY2 BY2 BY4 BY4 BY4 BY8 BY8 BY8 CF3
BY1 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT BY3 BY3 BY3 BY3 BY6 BY6 BY6 BY6 ATT forever
BY2 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT BY5 BY5 BY5 BY5 LCT LCT LCT ATT
BY3 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT BY7 BY7 BY7 BY7 ATT forever
BY4 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT BY9 BY9 BY9 BY9 MIN
BY5 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN forever
BY6 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN forever
BY7 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN
BY8 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MIN
BY9 ----------- NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT COL

Primary planet plants colony on turns 17 - 19* - 20 - 21* - 23 - 23* - 25* - 26 - 29 - 32 - 35 - 38 - 41 - 44 - 47
50 - 53 - 56 - 59 the * is by the colony not the base yard.
build if 18+ First secondary domed starts in 17 + 18 = 35 plants in - 38 - 41 - 44 - 47 - 50 - 53 - 56 - 59
build if 30+ Third secondary domed starts in 20 + 18 = 38 plants in - 41 - 44 - 47 - 50 - 53 - 56 - 59

If more attack ships are not needed then about three weapon platforms per colony can be built by the base yards during colonization. If the yard ship is not needed at the sphereworld, it can speed things up at the secondary colonies by helping to build bases. Two secondary are enough since the average is 28 planets per system. If the system is secure you can just have all planets do colony ships and skip the mines and weapon platforms. You now have 27 yards in system - an average of one per planet. While this has been going on the other colonies in system have been building facilities. The primary planet does turn 15-17 resupply for a total of four facilities, which is a large domed. It then switches to four colony ships to do the best planets in the system, using the stockpile of mines. Then it does attack ships, and later (when more mines build up) does colony ships or troops. The second secondary does a cargo facility turn 20 then a space port on turns 21-23, after which everything is TBD. Generally speaking every colony gets a yard facility and every domed also gets a cargo facility. This leaves two productive facilities per planet, about breakeven if minerals extraction. So while it would be very nice if the colony is not domed, it is not necessary. A typical large 120 minerals not domed will be 30k and domed are 3k each. The average will be 4.5 non domed per system and about 24 domed. So by about turn 65 after initial entry into system production can be 165k minerals. Since 28 worlds all running consume only 84k this leaves 81k excess - enough to pay maintenance on 12 dreadnoughts. The yards scrap to make fleet slots available unless really needed to build weapons platforms or troops. Until yards are scrapped there will not be slots for roving fleets since 255 x 27 = 6885 which is greater than the 5000 upper limit. The average number systems to plant per sphereworld is precisely six (five if I do them all). So if only two colonizing fleets are built per sphereworld the first two systems will be about 40 turns old when the fleets arrive at the fifth and sixth systems. The first two systems get 27 yards or less, 3-4 get 18 or less, and 5-6 get 9. Obviously you plant the systems with the most planets first. So the total will be less than 4500 yards at the peak. The system fleets consume about 254 x 7 slots and the colonizing fleets another 70 x 8 so only 2500 or so slots are available for yards. I would have to look at the planets summary, but I doubt that more than 60 have over 30 planets. Assume that 120 have 18 to 30. That makes a total of 550 original yards plus 1620 plus 2160 plus 350 = 4680. Hmmm.... I am definitely going to have to skip the yards in any system which can be secured by guarding the warp points.... Hopefully that will be at least half of them after I land troops in the initial invasion.

To support 70 fleets of eight capital ships requires maintenance of about 40k x 70 = 2800k minerals. I plan on an average of three yards per regular world and 14 per sphere world. So running most yards and colonies is another 1200k or so. I plan on 300k research, 700k intelligence, 2500k minerals, 200k organics, 800k radioactives, and 500k ship score to just under the MEE limit I set of 5000k. I scaled the limit by a factor of ten since the map has over ten times the normal planet capacity. I will mothball yards as I approach 5000k then unmothball them all to build fleets on the same turn, jumping my score by 3000k. Hopefully I will get tech early so that I can build the 70 fleets before I have to start mothballing. If so I will mothball as built to keep my score and maintenance low. My sphereworld production bonus should be or exceed 40 % by then and I will immediately build system robotoid factories. That gets me to 3250k/ 260k/ 1040k in just a few turns. So it will be (turn 31 now + 16 to plant + 7 UPC-SY facility + 9 yards + 9 tech + 21 int + (14+18) min + (6+5) rad + 3 org + 19 store) turn 158 before I can afford the fleet blitz (38 turns later than my usual 120). The sphereworld colony builds three yards and they each build three or four more. My plan is to store 15 million minerals and five million each organics/ radioactives to take care of the huge blitz deficit, building storage rather than facilities whenever I am within three turns of capacity. As my yards ramp up I will be building minerals and radioactives extraction to breakeven. Then I will do tech, then intelligence, then resume resource extraction. At blitz I will be deficit 1500k for 5t then 750k when the robotoids build, with 7500k remaining. The sphereworlds build minerals for twenty turns to reach breakeven (taking into account new colonies). The yards will have built about 12000 medium weapon platforms - an average of two per colony to be planted, but moving them from the sphereworlds will be a huge logistics problem (a trip each for 210 cargo 17250 base ships). I could build three times as many but even the sphere worlds cannot hold that much unless I take the time to build cargo facilities ! Alternatively I can split my cargo space to have 21000 x 20 cargo troops and send two troop transports with 150 large troops each with each fleet rather than building troops in new systems. The game should be over with all planets colonized by turn 250 if it does not break from range check error. I am definitely not going to scroll through 7000 colonies doing adjustments every turn ! Instead I will look at the ship list for what 254 colony ships have built and setup a full queue as I plant each colony. Also I will need base ships to shift captured population to the correct atmospheres if the game Lasts that long. Some of the AI are bound to surrender at blitz, usually three or four. What do I get out of this game ? I increase my racial score by 700k - a factor of four. It will interesting to see how the AI in the next game react to that experience level. My game score will be over 25 million - beat that !

Now my question is this. Have any of you done this kind of exponential growth scenario before rather than glassing the AI worlds ? If so, is my strategy on target, and can you suggest improvements ?


PS - I estimate 500 hours (2 months) to play this, so it is not recommended if you have other things to do !



[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 27 May 2001).]

Same as Last posting except I noticed something. Most of the AI see me as brotherly, but the ones with *** at the end of the line see me as Moderate. Now what file and item determines that ?

quote:

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Originally posted by LCC:


0/2 Eee -4/0 not met - any
0/2 Phong -4/0 brotherly MA 15 - any
0/2 Toltayan -4/0 brotherly TR 9 - any ***
0/3 Rage -2/30 moderate war - make peace ? - any ***

10/2 Cue Cappa -4/0 angry war - make peace ? - 20
10/2 Ukra Tal -4/0 brotherly TR 20 - 20 ***
10/2 Colonials -3/0 brotherly P 16 - 15
10/2 Piundan -2/20 receptive MA 15 - 10

20/2 Narn -3/0 brotherly TR 20 - 7
20/2 Toron -3/0 brotherly P 20 - 7 ***
20/2 Sallegra -3/0 murderous war - make peace ? - 7 ***
20/2 Amonkrie -2/30 moderate TA 0 just did - 5

30/2 Abbidon -3/0 not met - 5
30/2 Drushocka -3/0 displeased war - 5
30/2 Cryslonite -2/20 warm TA 7 - 3
30/2 Sergetti -2/30 warm TR 20 - 3 ***

35/5 Pyrochette -3/0 receptive TR 7 hmmm...... - 1
40/2 Krill -2/20 murderous just broke treaty but not war yet - 2
40/5 Xichung -1/20 Murderous (break soon ?) TR 20 - half a colony ? ***

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Also I am using Version 1.72 TDM-Modpack and release 1.35. Are they compatible ? There is something seriously wrong about my treaty with the Xichung. According to the politics file, the highest treaty they are allowed is non-aggression. So how come I have a TR with them ? Is it because I added them as a player then put them on full ai on and controlled by computer ? I got the treaty by giving a gift of 4000/3000/3000 resources with the treaty as part of the package.

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 27 May 2001).]