TDM-Modpack politics in really big game

quote:

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Originally posted by LCC:

Except for the Sergetti and Eee colonizing is less than one per two turns.

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I was half asleep. That should be per turn, not per two turns. The Rage do indeed have a couple colony ships at all times, and average a colony per two turns. They have added 17 colonies in 30 turns. So in the long run they will NOT be a joke - turn 120 = 70+ col. However, notice the Eee added 34 and have 13 on the way - definitely not a joke. I have added 29 (x10 sphereworlds except one) in the first 23 turns and built a LOT of yards. See my posting on geometic growth below. I hope to grab the other spheres sometime in the next 30 turns but will need to distribute pop and build fleets first. All my current spheres should begin resource production by about turn 40 to finance the fleets. Until then I will be hard pressed to finance yards.

In my really big game it is now turn 45. I am posting a Winzip zip file with turn 45 in Scenario/Mod Archive Space Empires IV Maps and Scenarios. Politics are as follows - turn 20 score/ rank/ percent increase in score per turn 20-30, then turn 30 score/ rank/ percent increase in score per turn 30-45, then current score/ rank, then current/turn 30 number tech levels, then current systems/ planets/ colony ships with turn 30 systems/ planets/ colony ships in parenthesis, then units/ ships/ bases, then wars-w/ no treaty-n/ treaty-t, then my relation with the race. I am at war with the Cue Cappa and Rage by their choice. Although the Cue Cappa are Brotherly, they still refuse my peace offers. I have not tried the Rage. Notice that the winners are still winning and the losers losing. The Krill sent their big fleets from Red into Central and beyond exploring. This has given the Ukra Tal some chances to win, keeping the Krill score down. Since I made peace with the Sallegra they have not lost ships to my minefields, bringing their score up.

Clays(me) ----- (472/02/6)(845/01/7)24xx/01-191/116-30/39/2(30/39/00)-17230/072/288-2w/0n/17t-myself
Sergetti -------- (494/01/4)(719/02/3)11xx/02-085/067-05/49/3(05/34/01)-00988/104/020-2w/3n/07t-TR Warm
Eee ------------- (346/15/5)(595/05/3)0980/03-060/044-14/76/3(11/44/13)-00683/044/000-1w/1n/04t-TR Bro
Amonkrie ----- (386/10/5)(616/04/3)0945/04-073/061-07/63/3(03/50/02)-00628/102/012-0w/4n/01t-TA Murd
Abbidon ------- (418/06/4)(636/03/2)0866/05-060/046-07/49/3(04/40/00)-00612/118/000-1w/0n/02t-TA Murd
Cryslonite ---- (390/08/3)(533/07/3)0823/06-068/062-06/34/4(06/25/01)-00295/100/002-1w/1n/10t-MA Rec

Toltayan ------ (449/03/3)(587/06/2)0733/07-075/055-05/39/0(05/27/00)-00338/073/000-2w/1n/10t-P Bro
Drushocka --- (430/05/1)(488/09/3)0731/08-062/054-06/52/5(06/36/00)-00302/071/006-3w/2n/11t-TA Murd
Pyrochette --- (432/04/1)(479/10/3)0729/09-079/065-05/46/0(05/29/00)-01259/029/009-1w/0n/04t-TR Ami
Sallegra ------- (348/14/2)(428/14/3)0718/10-070/058-06/36/2(05/31/00)-00493/068/004-2w/4n/11t-TA Murd
Piundan ------- (328/18/3)(453/11/3)0709/11-076/060-06/30/0(06/21/02)-01832/085/002-2w/0n/11t-MA Rec

Krill ------------- (375/12/3)(517/08/1)0639/12-061/049-05/23/2(04/20/00)-00081/085/000-2w/0n/15t-MA Murd
Rage ----------- (408/07/1)(453/12/2)0611/13-071/060-09/39/2(09/27/02)-01296/066/007-2w/2n/05t-War Murd
Xi Chung ------ (332/17/3)(439/13/2)0597/14-065/050-08/22/2(07/21/00)-01918/089/000-2w/0n/12t-TR Murd
Toron ----------- (366/13/1)(410/16/2)0559/15-086/069-06/24/0(06/19/00)-01394/038/003-2w/1n/14t-P Bro
Narn ------------ (387/09/1)(422/15/1)0517/16-075/057-10/20/0(11/18/00)-01341/045/002-2w/0n/11t-P Bro
Colonials ----- (264/19/4)(384/18/2)0491/17-081/064-06/25/1(06/16/01)-01907/044/002-2w/1n/14t-TR Bro
Cue Cappa -- (381/11/0)(399/17/1)0480/18-066/050-06/32/1(06/25/02)-00299/039/003-2w/1n/10t-War *Bro*

Phong --------- (333/16/1)(378/19/0)0359/19-060/048-05/20/2(05/18/00)-00120/029/000-1w/0n/11t-P Bro
Ukra Tal ------ (232/20/0)(243/20/1)0301/20-065/047-06/17/2(05/16/00)-00109/027/000-2w/3n/12t-P Mod

Net change ships/bases :
<=10 Eee +4/0 Toltayan +5/0 Cue Cappa +9/0 Colonials +2/+1 Phong -11/0 Ukra Tal +10/0
<=20 Krill +15/0 Pyrochette +15/+3 Rage +16/+4 Narn +11/0 Toron +18/+1
<=30 Drushocka +26/+6
<=40 Sergetti +32/+5 Piundan +34/0 Xi Chung +36/-6
more Clays +33/+215 Abbidon +44/0 Amonkrie +50/+3 Cryslonite +41/-1 Sallegra +47/+1

Net changes units :
<=100 Xichung -78 Krill +2 Phong +23 Ukra Tal +42 Cryslonite +81 Drushocka +83 Rage +94
<=150 Amonkrie +101 Toltayan +110 Sallegra +106 Toron +119 Cue Cappa +143
<=300 Eee +286 Colonials +263 Pyrochette +248
<=600 Abbidon +374 Piundan +431 Narn +388
more Sergetti +842 Clays +10339 - single warhead small mines except about 900 fighters

Colonizing :
<= 5 Clays none, have all I can handle. Sallegra 5 Krill 3 Xichung 1 Toron 5 Narn 2 (net) Phong 2 Ukra 1
<= 10 Abbidon 9 Cryslonite 9 Piundan 9 Colonials 9 Cue Cappa 7
<= 15 Sergetti 15 Amonkrie 13 Toltayan 12 Rage 12
more Eee 32 ! (Ancient Race) Drushocka 16 Pyrochette 17
All empires see at least 400 colonize with breathe except :
Abbidon 22, Amonkrie 19, Cryslonites 74, Pyrochette 65, Rage 42, Sergetti 66, and Xichung 46

Techs - not really comparable since I have been trading techs every few turns to anybody I can get to trade. Load the posted savegame and notice the trades on this turn. Those AI rubes will give 200/200/200 in resources if they really want a tech or treaty! The trick is to figure out what they want. I am adding more storage for the loot starting now. First I wanted to get my own minerals production up so that I would be one of the best if not the best partner for every AI. All 28 of my sphereworlds are in production.

Treaties - you might be wondering how in the world I can maintain a Lasting relationship with a race who is Murderous ? It is simple. Every turn I keep the AI politics manager busy by doing a swap of organics for minerals as follows - Abbidon 20/17 Amonkrie 20/17 Drushocka 20/19 Krill 20/20 Sallegra 20/19. The Xi Chung will not trade and nothing I can do (such as demand tribute or even demand surrender) gets them to break treaty. I do not want to break it myself so I guess I am stuck with them. They parked fighters in my home system Ike on the Up warp point! I never saw THAT before - it annoys me. Next thing you know they will plant a colony in Ike, which they claim in spite of it being my home system.

Wars - a galaxy in flames!
Abbidon vs Narn (Psychic vs Religious) has dropped the pace of Abbidon expansion northwards dramatically, but they are moving east from their far SW corner towards the Cue Cappa. I expect that will open up a third front in the Cue Cappa struggle (Psychic vs Psychic) since they both now claim Aqua and the CC are partners with Narn.
Amonkrie soon vs Colonials and Eee (no contact yet) as they push westwards out of their far SE corner.
Colonials vs Drushocka - explorers in conflict, territory does not overlap.
Col vs Toron - as usual caused by home systems within range two. The Col have stealth armor cloaked LC with PPB V...
Cryslonite vs Toltayan - homes in range two.
Cue Cappa vs Clays - I settled a sphereworld in his home system Ein. OTOH I settled sphereworlds in home systems of other races who are brotherly partners. The CC are a puzzle to me. I have tried to make peace several times but they always refuse.
CC vs Drushocka happens this turn declared by CC. Due to Dru (Murd) vs Col (P Bro) war ? Territories do not yet overlap, but soon.
Drushocka vs Col and CC see above, vs Phong apparently just declared - Dru want Iou ? The Dru have poor relations with lots of folks.
Eee vs Sallegra - they are pushing colonies into S territory. It will be a long and bloody conflict. Eee are getting along well with Colonials. But Drushocka are going to have yet another war soon - territory conflict.
Krill vs Ukra Tal - 3 Ukra homes in Red glassed, but still homes in range two. I demanded using demanding tone to both of them to make peace with the other for several turns, but the war rages on. The Ukra no longer love me. Oh well, who needs a loser anyway ? This turn the Ukra give Red to the Krill. Maybe that will help.
Krill vs Xi Chung - just explorers in conflict at Central. The Krill seem murderous to everybody they meet. It is natural that they have a mutual dislike to the Murderous Xichung.
Narn vs Abbidon see above, vs Sergetti - they just recently glassed the Narn home in Yak, so territory no longer overlaps. Relations are murderous so the war will rage on.
Phong vs Xi Chung just ended with a NA pact due to my repeated demanding tone demands to both of them to make peace. But the Dru just declared war on P, so no rest for the weak....
Piundan vs Sergetti - homes in range two, vs Sallegra - explorers in conflict at Central.
Pyrochette vs Toron - their expansion west claiming Lenoltris, which will also soon open another front for the hard pressed Col.
Rage vs Clays - they really HATE my colony in their home system Fun. They also claim Fezzran, which I planted.
Rage vs Ukra Tal - the Ukra seem Brotherly, but the Om/Oft homes in range two guarantees war.
Sallegra vs Eee and Piundan see above.
Sergetti vs Narn and Piundan see above.
Toltayan vs Cryslonite and Xichung is homes in range two.
Toron vs Colonials and Pyrochette see above.
Ukra Tal vs Krill and Rage see above.
Xichung vs Krill and Toltayan see above.

You might be interested in a production and trade analysis, ranked by total minerals. First is the turn 30 rank/ current rank, then current rank by total score, then number trade partners, then trade partners increase since turn 30, then values (in thousands). Order is minerals, organics, radioactives with each giving production/ trade/ total/ current balance rate/ stockpile. I left the total off organics and radioactives to shorten the line. Last is research giving production and total with trade included. The Cue Cappa and Toron research rate is almost up to mine, but I am way ahead on points due to trading tech, so it is not a problem. It should be obvious that TRADE is very important. Notice that the miserable rank 20 Ukra Tal are right up there with rank 2 Sergetti due to trade....

Clays(me) --- 01/01 - 01/17/3 - 457/590/1047/000/1756 - 14/95/56/1107 - 19/141/42/1445 - 065/281

Toron ---------- 02/02 - 15/14/3 - 210/475/685/542/520 - 21/70/89/500 - 26/86/94/520 - 109/276
Krill ------------ 04/03 - 12/15/5 - 156/508/665/052/540 - 14/66/78/500 - 18/98/103/520 - 095/233
Piundan ------ 09/04 - 11/11/5 - 252/302/555/387/736 - 17/29/43/338 - 25/40/46/339 - 062/117
Colonials ---- 12/05 - 17/14/8 - 187/367/554/447/740 - 16/43/58/530 - 25/77/89/530 - 059/141
Cue Cappa - 03/06 - 18/10/1 - 158/355/514/459/660 - 18/54/72/500 - 25/76/97/540 - 102/269
Eee ----------- 11/07 - 03/04/1 - 376/101/478/366/1100 - 50/51/53/560 - 179/71/178/780 - 107/125
Toltayan ----- 16/08 - 07/10/8 - 212/244/457/294/700 - 26/22/45/385 - 49/28/59/415 - 111/151

Drushocka -- 10/09 - 08/11/3 - 205/228/433/296/740 - 29/24/50/580 - 38/32/59/660 - 107/154
Sergetti ------ 07/10 - 02/07/3 - 222/207/430/195/555 - 83/15/88/580 - 121/20/105/658 - 103/135
Narn ---------- 08/11 - 16/11/8 - 162/260/423/362/500 - 20/24/42/500 - 47/29/69/520 - 094/149
Sallegra ------ 05/12 - 10/11/5 - 208/214/422/281/720 - 62/65/85/540 - 38/27/42/500 - 102/156
Ukra Tal ----- 13/13 - 20/12/6 - 090/331/422/370/500 - 24/41/43/560 - 14/50/60/500 - 053/151
Pyrochette -- 06/14 - 09/04/2 - 314/107/421/318/740 - 22/07/20/530 - 85/08/58/560 - 111/126

Phong -------- 20/15 - 19/11/7 - 120/287/408/331/499 - 14/35/48/500 - 25/36/52/520 - 074/155
Cryslonite -- 15/16 - 06/10/6 - 159/230/390/187/708 - 61/23/80/560 - 25/28/30/463 - 107/164
Xi Chung ---- 17/17 - 14/12/8 - 112/265/377/266/561 - 29/35/28/199 - 13/35/41/500 - 057/128

Amonkrie --- 14/18 - 04/01/0 - 227/065/292/071/770 - 24/02/20/409 - 35/02/23/500 - 112/112
Abbidon ----- 19/19 - 05/02/1 - 165/073/239/044/608 - 35/02/33/620 - 59/03/45/600 - 104/104
Rage --------- 18/20 - 13/05/1 - 161/077/238/118/770 - 13/12/20/500 - 39/11/21/438 - 101/128

I timed my build schedule to be in balance on minerals this turn - hit it just right. Half my 14x39 colony base yards are built. Population has been distributed from the homeworlds to the sphereworlds proportionate to the number of sphereworlds they will colonize. That is not quite finished, still needs some moved from Ike and Central into Hen. The remote sphereworld colonies have their proportionate share too. Production of mines is almost complete for 200 per colony including those not yet planted, but the mines need to be shifted into the nexus systems proportionate to the colonies each plants. About 900 fighters with small PPB3 have been produced to encourage my partners to research phased shields so I can trade for it. Unfortunately they do not seem to have noticed, so I will have to research them myself. I am inclined to use small rocket pods on the fighters. Even though they are one shot, most fighters will be slaughtered before they could do the damage of a RP using beams. The closest I ever came to losing one of my dreadnoughts was when attacked by 75 such large fighters using RP3. Only my legendary experience, 7 PD V, and shield regenerators saved me. It takes five shots that hit for a small anti-proton beam iii (and four shots for a small incinerator iii) to do the same damage. Calculate 2500 shields and 2500 armor for each base ship plus another 3000 to destroy components. Then for one of them I need 8000 points/100 per hit = 80 hits. So I will build 400 for each place to be defended, stored in two carriers for warp points, in cargo facilities 3 for homeworlds, or in the regular cargo storage for sphereworld colonies. The fighters cost 2-4 times as much to build as the baseships they destroy, but moving a baseship just (7+5)x3x1/(1/4) = 144 sectors costs as much in maintenance as the fighters, not including idle time for fleet assembly, and assuming the chance of using emergency propulsion pods. Hmm. That's not so bad - five to eight systems out and back, which is within range of Central to anywhere on the map. The problem is in getting a fleet of baseships from Central to multiple threatened warp points in time to do any good. Maintenance costs for idle fleets on standby are prohibitive, and mothball/unmothball costs both time and money - not good. For warp points the first line of defense is mines, replenished by doing a temporary refit to minelayers on space yard space stations, or unmothballing a minelayer size 2500 Starbase if built. The second line is two cloaked carriers with 400 fighters. The third line is seven size 2500 Starbase attack bases mothballed until sensor sats in nearby systems detect an approaching fleet too big for the carriers to handle. The final resort is unmothball and move a fleet of baseships from Central to the problem system. They probably could not save the warp point bases, but they could destroy the invading fleet before it did too much harm to colonies.

Before blitz I plan on colonizing (invading if necessary) all 51-28=23 sphereworlds. I have identified 17 homespace warp points plus all ten of Central to be defended. My homespace will include 29 systems with 9 sphereworlds, 138 atmosphere none, and a total of 762 planets. That is a bit more than twice my fair share of 254/20 systems and 7175/20 planets, but I am greedy. I will not try to control the warp points of the other 23 systems I have already planted. It would be too great an expense for too little gain. If I can hit and run back to the sphereworld to demolish a ship/fleet I will of course. So I need my base yards to build 400x (39+23+17) =31600 fighters at two per yard per turn. I also need them to build 14x39-288 =258 more yards at five turns per yard. That is a total of 15800+1290 =17090 yard turns. About 100 of the 258 yards have already started. If I do nothing but minerals on the sphereworlds, then I can start 20 yards per turn beginning in 5 turns, resulting in the Last yard being built on turn 45+5+8+5 =turn 63. In the meantime I will have built fighters (more than)2x190x5 + 2x(370+ 350+ 330+ 310+ 290+ 310+ 330+ 350+ 390+ 430+ 470+ 510) = 1900+ 8880 leaving 20820/2x546=19 more turns till turn 82 building fighters. Building a 35k point base takes 18 turns till turn 100, but first I want to build 23 fleets to take the other sphereworlds about 12 turns delay for that. I also want to colonize/ abandon every ruins world to prevent the AI getting tech. So I can blitz on turn 82+12+3+18 + another set of fleets 12 = turn 127 - right on schedule! My pop is 128 billion now. At 4% per turn compounded 83 turns it hits 3318 billion/51 =65 billion per sphereworld, which has cap of 64 billion. So that is right on schedule too! I get minerals production of 1000 x (1.5 increasing to 1.7 with one value improvement plant 3) x1.9 x 39 x maybe 70 x 1.3 after robotoids = 11463k. This does not include anything I can produce on the 23 not yet taken. Maintenance on 80 x 14 x 1.3k yard bases plus maybe 3500k for fleets plus 80 x 7 x 5k for defense bases leaves 11463-8156 =3307k to run yards minus 80x14x2 for base yards minus 62x4k for colonies leaves 820k for running new planets - 410 of them.So by the time the second colony ship builds, the first should be near planting. By the time the second plants, the first should have built a couple of minerals to breakeven. Its all profit from there on out.

One more back of the envelope and I will quit this grand strategy lesson. The Sergetti are at 11xx k points growing at 3%. On turn 63 when my Last yards build and I am about to be Mega Evil 5000k what is her score ? About 1872. Cryslonite 823->1400. Who would surrender who achieves a rate of 3% ? Max score now would be 5000/(10x1.7) = 294 nobody at 3%. But the bottom nine are not at that rate. So if I see a chance to get almost everybody to surrender on turn 63 then I will take it, leaving just a few to keep under control while I colonize every planet in the quadrant. That should not take long. If I can NOT get them to surrender then I will avoid MEE by staying a modest surplus in minerals and scrapping the spaceport while building more minerals anyway. I will mothball yards (6 points score each) over the colonies if necessary, but it would delay the blitz.The yards on the warp points get highest priority - they never stop or morthball. To do that I am starting space yard battle cruisers with cloaks for the warp points already. When the transport BC are done shifting cargo they retrofit to yards and help out. As soon as I get the tech, everybody get a value improvement plant of course. If they stack I will do several on each of the sphereworlds. I have to check that out.


PS - I am still able to do three turns per day on average. So this game should only Last another month or so.....

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 10 June 2001).]

I just checked the rocket pods thing. Since they do not work versus fighters, and most of the AI have LOTS of fighters, then it would be better to have a combination of some with rockets and some with PPB3. The ones with ppb would be most useful versus fighters since there is no phased shield for fighters. When carriers and fighters are present the rp will go after the carrier while the ppb engage the enemy fighters. Also the value improvement plants stack, but the absolute max is 250. So to get 150->250 in 60 turns you need 100/3x6= six value improvements. Not worth the slots and build time except on a sphereworld that has 100/200 facility limit.

Bump see the posting AI tech trade bugs. I doubt that the bug is specific to my game, but it is possible.

In my really big game it is now turn 60. I am posting a Winzip zip file with turn 60 in Scenario/Mod Archive Space Empires IV Maps and Scenarios. Politics are as follows - turn 30 score/ rank/ percent increase in score per turn 30-45, then turn 45 score/ rank/ percent increase in score per turn 45-60, then current score/ rank, then current/turn 45 number tech levels, then current systems/ planets/ colony ships with turn 45 systems/ planets/ colony ships in parenthesis, then units/ ships/ bases, then wars-w/ no treaty-n/ treaty-t, then my relation with the race. My score does NOT include 250+ mothballed bases worth 1250k+. The actual increase was above 5% per turn.

Clays(me) ---- (845/01/7)(24xx/01/3)37xx/01-331/191-30/039/00(30/39/2)-26393/107/360-2w/0n/17t-myself
Amonkrie ----- (616/04/3)(0945/04/3)15xx/02-084/073-08/091/04(07/63/3)-00925/142/012-1w/6n/04t-TR Ang
Sergetti -------- (719/02/3)(11xx/02/2)14xx/03-099/085-05/069/04(05/49/3)-01916/128/028-2w/6n/06t-TR Warm
Eee ------------- (595/05/3)(0980/03/2)14xx/04-075/060-15/095/12(14/76/3)-00813/071/000-0w/6n/07t-to P Bro

Abbidon ------- (636/03/2)(0866/05/2)12xx/05-064/060-08/059/03(07/49/3)-00649/123/000-1w/0n/02t-TA Mod
Pyrochette --- (479/10/3)(0729/09/3)11xx/06-093/079-05/065/07(05/46/0)-01569/051/011-1w/2n/07t-MA Bro
Cryslonite ---- (533/07/3)(0823/06/2)11xx/07-079/068-06/040/04(06/34/4)-00360/101/005-3w/2n/09t-P Rec
Sallegra ------- (428/14/3)(0718/10/2)10xx/08-084/070-06/067/08(06/36/2)-00836/098/004-2w/2n/13t-to TR Murd
Piundan ------- (453/11/3)(0709/11/2)0957/09-089/076-06/040/04(06/30/0)-02377/119/003-2w/1n/11t-MA Rec

Drushocka --- (488/09/3)(0731/08/2)0916/10-085/062-11/101/01(06/52/5)-00578/070/006-2w/0n/16t-MA Murd
Toltayan ------ (587/06/2)(0733/07/1)0877/11-083/075-05/049/00(05/39/0)-00433/068/000-1w/1n/11t-P Bro
Rage ----------- (453/12/2)(0611/13/2)0845/12-084/071-11/051/03(09/39/2)-01501/085/009-2w/4n/06t-War Murd
Krill ------------- (517/08/1)(0639/12/1)0759/13-081/061-06/035/00(05/23/2)-00171/086/000-2w/1n/15t-MA Murd

Colonials ----- (384/18/2)(0491/17/2)0658/14-100/081-06/031/00(06/25/1)-02022/051/004-1w/2n/15t-P Bro
Xi Chung ------ (439/13/2)(0597/14/0)0624/15-083/065-09/032/04(08/22/2)-01829/087/000-2w/4n/10t-TR Murd
Narn ------------ (422/15/1)(0517/16/0)0550/16-091/075-10/024/00(10/20/0)-01697/050/003-2w/0n/11t-P Bro
Cue Cappa --- (399/17/1)(0480/18/0)0529/17-084/066-07/038/01(06/32/1)-00371/037/003-1w/3n/10t-War *Bro*
Toron ----------- (410/16/2)(0559/15/0)0523/18-119/086-05/027/02(06/24/0)-01458/037/002-2w/1n/14t-P Bro
Phong ---------- (378/19/0)(0359/19/2)0517/19-076/060-05/028/00(05/20/2)-00162/055/001-0w/0n/12t-P Bro
Ukra Tal ------- (243/20/1)(0301/20/2)0431/20-071/065-07/018/01(06/17/2)-00108/057/000-3w/3n/12t-P Murd

Net change ships/bases - was 423 now 277 per 15 turns definitely down, but ships are bigger too.
LOST Toltayan -5/0, Drushocka -1/0, Xichung -2/0, Toron -1/-1, Cue Cappa -2/0
<=10 Abbidon 5/0, Cryslonite 1/3, Krill 1/0, Narn 5/1, Colonials 7/2
<=20 Rage 19/2
<=30 Eee 27/0, Pyrochette 22/2, Sallegra 30/0, Phong 26/1, UkraTal 30/0
<=40 Sergetti 24/8, Amonkrie 40/0, Piundan 34/1
more Clays 35/72(and mothballed 250+ more bases)

Net changes units was 3658 now 3880 per 15 turns - about the same
LOST Xichung -89, UkraTal -1
<=80 Abbidon 37, Cryslonite 65, Toron 64, Cue Cappa 72, Phong 42
<=160 Eee 130, Colonials 115, Toltayan 95, Krill 90
<=320 Amonkrie 297, Drushocka 276, Rage 205, Pyrochette 310
<=640 Sallegra 343, Piundan 545, Narn 356
more Clays 9163, Sergetti 928

Colonizing - the rate has picked up! Was 169 now 264 per 15 turns :
Clays none but 17 spheres in the next 15 turns
<= 6 Toron 3, Narn 4, Cryslonite 6, Colonials 6, Cue Cappa 6, UkraTal 1
<= 10 Abbidon 10, Toltayan 10, Piundan 10, Xichung 10, Phong 8
<= 20 Sergetti 20, Eee 19, Pyrochette 19, Krill 12, Rage 12
<= 30 Amonkrie 28
more Sallegra 31, Drushocka 49!
All empires see at least 400 colonize with breathe except :
Abbidon 20, Amonkrie 57, Pyrochette 85, Rage 166, and Sergetti 68

Races as they are seen by other races - not as they see the other races. Relations after the *** are those who see Clays as Moderate rather than Brotherly. They are ALL empires 14-20! A bug or a feature???? This data was taken with ALL races not under computer control for the examination. Possibly the player who is normally NOT under computer control can only be seen as Brotherly by the first dozen ??? Is this for a special distrust in the slots used by Neutral empires???
Clays TA-Bro TR-Bro P-Bro War-Bro MA-Bro P-Bro MA-Bro P-Bro P-Bro MA-Bro MA-Bro *** War-Mod TR-Mod TR-Mod P-Mod P-Mod P-Mod TR-Mod
Abbidon TA-Mod MA-Ami War-Murd ***
Amonkrie TR-Ang War-Mod TA-Warm TA-Warm none-Mod TA-Mod *** none-Mod none-Mod none-Mod none-Mod
Colonials P-Bro none-Murd MA-Bro P-Bro TA-Dis P-Bro TA-Rec P-Bro MA-Bro P-Bro TA-Mod *** none-Mod TA-Cool TA-Bro P-Bro War-Murd P-Bro TA-Bro
Cryslonite P-Rec War-Murd TR-Murd none-Murd MA-Dis P-Mod none-Ang *** MA-Mod War-Murd TA-Murd MA-Mod War-Murd P-Warm
Cue Cappa War-Bro MA-Ami TA-Mod none-Warm P-Warm P-Bro P-Mod *** none-Murd TA-Bro none-Dis P-Rec P-Bro P-Rec
Drushocka MA-Murd TA-Ami TR-Murd TA-Mod TR-Murd War-Murd MA-Murd TA-Ang TA-Murd TA-Murd *** TA-Murd TA-Murd TA-Murd TR-Murd P-Murd War-Ang NA-Murd
Eee P-Bro TA-Ami none-Bro none-Warm TR-Bro TR-Bro none-Warm TA-Ami *** TA-Ami none-Rec none-Rec none-Mod
Krill MA-Murd MA-Murd P-Murd War-Murd TR-Murd TR-Murd TR-Murd TA-Murd MA-Murd ***TA-Murd P-Murd TA-Murd MA-Murd P-Murd TA-Murd War-Murd
Narn P-Bro War-Murd P-Bro MA-Bro TR-Bro P-Bro *** TA-Rec War-Murd P-Bro P-Bro P-Bro TA-Bro
Phong P-Bro P-Bro TA-Bro TR-Bro P-Bro *** TA-Bro TR-Ami P-Bro P-Bro P-Bro NA-Warm
Piundan MA-Rec P-Rec TA-Mod none-Cool TA-Warm P-Rec P-Rec *** War-Murd War-Murd MA-Rec P-Rec P-Rec TA-Rec
Pyrochette MA-Bro TA-Mod none-Mod TA-Rec TA-Warm MA-Murd *** none-Ami War-Murd MA-Bro
************************************************** ***************
Rage War-Murd MA-Mod none-Dis TA-Mod TA-Warm TA-Warm none-Warm *** TA-Warm TR-Warm War-Murd none-Warm
Sallegra TR-Murd none-Bro War-Murd TA-Mod TA-Murd TA-Murd P-Murd TA-Murd TR-Murd War-Rec *** TA-Cool none-Warm TA-Murd MA-Murd MA-Murd TA-Murd
Sergetti TR- Warm none-Mod none-Warm TA-Mod none-Warm TA-Warm War-Murd War-Rec *** none-Dis none-Mod TR-Warm NA-Warm none-Dis
Toltayan P-Bro TA-Warm TR-Bro MA-Bro P-Bro P-Bro MA-Bro *** TA-Bro none-Bro P-Bro P-Bro War-Ang
Toron P-Bro none-Murd MA-Bro P-Bro P-Bro P-Bro P-Bro P-Bro P-Bro War-Murd *** TR-Bro MA-Bro TR-Bro P-Bro TA-Bro TR-Bro
Ukra Tal P-Murd none-Bro War-Dis P-Dis War-Ang none-Warm TA-Ang P-Bro P-Rec P-Dis MA-Murd *** war-Bro MA-Murd NA-Warm P-Murd TA-Bro none-Bro
Xi Chung TR-Murd P-Murd P-Murd NA-Murd none-Mod War-Murd TA-Murd NA-Murd TA-Murd *** none-Murd TA-Murd none-Murd War-Murd TR-Murd none-Dis

Okay I see some obvious patterns
1) Brotherlies - Clays, Eee, Phong, Toltayan, Colonials, Narn, Toron
2) Murderous - Sallegra, Drushocka, Krill, Xichung
3) My relations are improving from initial Murderous with Amonkrie, Abbidon, Pyrochette. But they fell rapidly with Ukra Tal and Krill after they demanded I break treaty with each other and I tried to interfere in their war by demanding they make peace with each other....
4) See my previous post at turn 31 for data from the anger files.


What has been accomplished in the Last 15 turns :
1) All colonies now have 14 yard bases above them. You will note that half of them are mothballed. This is due to a lack of minerals to run them, and also to avoid the 5000k point MEE level. All the bases have been retrofitted from the level built to the final design. That was expensive!
2) All but the Last two of 28 warp points leading to home space have been mined. Minelayers are finishing up those two.
3) Battle cruiser yard ships have been deployed to all 28 warp points and are building seven yard bases for each warp point.
4) Cloaked surveillance satellites have been deployed above all colonies. Mine/satellite laying battle cruisers are in the process of placing sats in all homespace systems.
5) All tech has been learned by a blitz colonization of almost all ruins planets within one warp point of all colonies. There was a lot of waste because I was not sure how many new techs I could get off of each world. Leftover colony ships are mothballed.
6) There is a BC yard ship and a minelayer parked above each of the 17 uncolonized sphereworlds building bases. This is to prepare for a blitz colonization.
7) All the colonies have built or are almost done with seven missile/pd large weapon platforms. The nexus colonies are doing eight.
8) 200 mines are in stock on all colonies. The nexus colonies have mines in stock for the 17 sphereworlds to be colonized. The colonies will each get 3000k population from the nexus world closest to them. Then each fleet returns for a second batch of population if possible.
9) Lots of fighters have been built, but I now doubt their value. Mainly they would be okay against other fighters or to send to the warp points, which cannot have weapon platforms of course. The number units in space is at the 5000 absolute limit. There are over 500 mines scattered about during colonization early in the game to be blown.
10) Minerals and radioactives production has been increased to exceed ship/base maintenance costs. With trade they are in excess of usage. Organics are not a problem.
11) Cargo facilities and value improvement plants are being built on homeworlds. Sphereworlds are building several value improvement plants.
12) The base storage was increased from 500k to 5000k to fix a problem with the AI not building ships a couple of turns back. I read about the problem on a thread in the forum. The effect was immediate for some empires. So the scores are not as high as they could have been due to stopped production by the AI.
13) Yard battle cruisers have been built and deployed to the planets with moons and a good production rate for m/o/r. Most are aleady building the starbases. A five step retofit sequence is designed for the minerals bases. Rads and orgs just change the mining components.
14) The game can be won on score at any time simply by having all yard bases build starbases with only a master computer on board. Then demand surrender from all. That would be amusing but not a real challenge.....

I am done with this game. For me it will not be a challenge. For a less experienced player (or one empire versus all other players) it could be really interesting. See the bottom of this post for suggestions on what to do next. There are three major reasons why I am going to move on to another map :
1) The AI has colonized only 7 of the 51 sphereworlds. There are 17 unclaimed, which I have BC yard ships over building bases. The next map should provide something besides rock/none sphereworlds. The AI are simply not interested in colonizing them for some reason.
2) The map does not have enough shortcuts in it. About half the races have met only about a dozen of the available. I really had expected all races to have met all others by turn 60 at the latest. The next map will fix it so that no system is more than 3 warp jumps from the central nexus. Also only 141 systems have been colonized by the AI. I expected them to have all but a few at this point in the game.
3) I want the next map created with LOTS of double moon planets for mining! Now that I have discovered the profit in double moons I am REALLY greedy. The production from remote mining is NOT included in what is traded to the AI and NOT included in score. So the only downside is the score for the starbase....

Besides flaws in the map there are some development mistakes I made, but those are not the major factors. This map BORES me now. I also want to change my race character for lower maintenance and better politics, with somewhat lower population growth rate. Also at the game start I made a mistake on adding the players by not having them use style from race as the default. So empires such as Xichung and Rage are making treaties they are not allowed. So the empires are not really behaving according to their design even when full AI on under computer control. A bug/feature which I have reported.


To play this map6 scenario use the files in the zip and change settings.txt lines below. Since it is a ten planet start and a 7000 planet map, you have to scale up by a factor of ten.
Maximum Number Of Systems := 255
Minimum Empire Minerals Generation := 2000
Minimum Empire Organics Generation := 2000
Minimum Empire Radioactives Generation := 2000
Minimum Empire Point Storage := 5000000
AI Mega Evil Empire Threshold Score Thousands := 5000
Default Number Of Units Per Player := 5000
Default Number Of Ships Per Player := 5000

The 17 colony fleets should be composed entirely of battle cruisers for speed and retrofit flexibility. To move population you need three cargo ships for each colony. To get there and back safely you need two fully loaded minelayers and two minesweepers. You also need a battle cruiser size colony ship to move fighters or weapon platforms in addition to the colony module. It only costs a little extra for the cargo space and hull. That makes 8 ships (@6 points score each) at the base yards of each of the 17 nexus colonies. Departure is set for turn 71, which is 15 turns after the yard ships departed for the new colonies. That gives just enough time to build 7 yard bases on each. The build schedule/allocation is given below.
Through Ein - Ejo fleet by Central II starts build at turn 61, Jest by Ein @62
Through Nizzarum - Huju by Nizzarum @62, Odd by Yak @61
Through Hen - Ain by Hen @62, Jinook by Zanthris @61, Jut by Ike sphere@60, Net - Uwin - Wurtuy by Central all three start 61
Through Red - Ah by Red @62
Through Osteo - Jog by Osteo @62
Through Oil - Etc by Oil @62
Through Ivy - Ape by Ivy @62
Through Ike - Eze - Equal - Eve by three Ike homes start 62

Also building are the seven yard bases at each of 28 warp points, and 25 remote mining starbases for m/o/r surplus. This puts you in a severe bind to avoid MEE until after the colonies plant. Yard bases are five points and starbases are 25. What you can do is mothball ALL excess colony base yards (except those on the 17 nexus colonies which build the fleets) as soon as they build their weapon platforms. As yards 4-7 are built on each warp point, mothball all but one and the yard battle cruiser. The yard battle cruisers need to retrofit to cargo to haul pop off the homeworlds, or as warships for the Cue Cappa warp points. As each RM starbase builds, let it run while doing the retrofits, then if necessary have the yard BC temporarily mothball it. But you are going to NEED those resources if the trade treaties get cancelled due to colonization, so get them built! You can also mothball bases at the new colonies as each gets 4-7 built, keeping one to unmothball the others and the yard BC. You have to clear the cargo out by having the minelayer lay mines, or just shift it into the yard you keep. Another problem is that mine sweeping by the Cue Cappa is getting serious. You NEED a starbase hull to retrofit up to a heavy beam station ASAP. It should be a five to seven turn build and only a turn or two for the retrofit sequence. But first you need a free yard, which may take up to four turns - I have not checked. In the meantime either build another minelayer at Ephandra or Vote or use those near Ulp. There are plenty of mines in stock. There is a minelayer on the way to Central for Ein, I forget just where it is. Of course ALL ships run cloaked, and retrofit to the latest quantum reactor yard ships for the obsolete design ones. You will notice that it has been a LONG time since I did an attack ship design. This is because my partners are allied with my enemies, and would share designs. Do NOT design a warship until you NEED it! Also in case you did not know, you must uncloak your yard BC to build anything.

The sphere worlds need to get as many value improvement plants built as time allows, preferably six or seven. You can do more m/o/r/int ONLY if you scrap a spaceport somewhere to avoid adding to the MEE score. Of course you get all the production back when you rebuild the spaceport later. Do NOT build the system robotoids etc until AFTER you go MEE. That way you can get a 30% production boost within a few turns. As soon as each homeworld gets one value improvement and a couple of cargo facility III built (scrap research facilities), it should start building a warp point closer with a repair bay on it. With Central XVI that gives you 11 to work with. There are large patches of uncolonized systems available, check out around Oil, Zanthris, Osteo, and Ivy. The claimed systems include all within one warp of a colony. So if you see no overlap between empires (empires - systems to avoid maps), then there are at least two systems uncolonized between them. Use the warp point closers to cut off swathes of systems, preserving the links to the nexus systems to shift population and ships. Close the homespace warp points only as a Last resort. If the enemy cannot attack through a warp point, he may decide to open his OWN! That would be very BAD! The warp point yard bases should be able to stock fighter starbases with fighters enough, if not then build more yards. In the meantime at MEE all warp points get at least one beam starbase. Fleet the yard bases with the beam starbase as fleet leader to get them to cluster. Build PD BC in case of attacks by carriers and fleet them with the bases as leaders one per base. You also need lots of warp point openers after you get the closers built. Basically, the enemy cannot open a warp point into any system which already has 10 warp points. So make it so, and improve transit times too.
All of this is very expensive and a quick back of the envelope shows that you CANNOT get resources fast enough or in large enough quantities with just the sphereworlds and the homespace atmosphere none planets. What you NEED is population for all atmospheres. You will note that the XiChung(methane) and Drushocka(methane) have boldly planted colonies in my homespace. Just before things go sour, either demand those worlds as a gift, or trade worthless ships for them....
Also you can get some easy surrenders at MEE from the seven weakest empires above simply by unmothball of the base yards and demand surrender. That still leaves a dozen to chew on, and provides lots of population to work with. It would be REALLY nice to have the 17 colony fleets available to shift pop out of them before the others blow them away!