National troops and mages vs SC and High Magics

[atul]

Originally posted by Cohen:
National armies and mages become almost useless ... so on where's the fun of the tactical differences beetween Nations? Are battle fought by singles or armies?

I'm no expert by any means, but. Following all these discussions about SCs and how they can only be countered with ones alike them, I'm getting a feeling that there's a classical "When the only tool you've got is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail" problem at work. (Have to admit, though, that SCs are a bit like "When only tool you've got is a shotgun, every problem starts to look for an exit" solution)

I mean, if you believe every fight can be won only with SCs, then the game turns into a battle between individuals. Of course you're going to lose if you send masses of regular troops against something that's purposefully devised to slay masses of regular troops. Don't. All things (should) have a weakness or two.

Enemy using say arch devils? Send a couple of mages to freeze 'em dead. Something invulnerable to elements? Paralyze - soul slay - enslave mind. Invulnerable to elements, absurd MR? Acid/magma spells, other armour negaters. Use troops to keep those big guys busy while the mages do their work, if they use life drain put undead boneshield instead.

They start having small squads to help their big guys in battle? Kill the normies, rest will rout. They start to imitate you, putting forth number of mages protected by some screen? Mass Flight is your life-saver. Massed troops? There are more army bLasting spells than I remember out of hand.

You're bound to take losses, just make sure your opponent is hurt more.

Of course, I'm proven myself I'm absolutely lousy in crafting anything heavy-hitting, so have resorted to national mages and troops. Nearly all of the aforementioned has been achieved by one nation's national mages, so they do have uses. You just can't send them off everywhere without planning first a bit.

But then again, I'm sure there's some SC lurking even in my current MP just waiting to prove me wrong. Can't wait.

[Wendigo]

All the way through my MP games, I recruit national mages & troops every single turn.

[Cohen]

Put a limped, crippled unit in the rear, with hold and attack ... the rearmost you can.

Use some units to absorb spells, like LI ... and let SC doing the hard job.

What I mean is ... all the army should do the job, not army takes hits and deceives enemy spells, and SC slaughter all the things.

And with magic items you can be invulnerable to almost all things ... perhaps some death magic spells ...

_________________________________
Wendingo, you'll find when you start wars with other humans, and not Indies, that soon your troops will be slaughtered and become swordfodder to cover big monsters.

[ April 25, 2004, 10:14: Message edited by: Cohen ]

[Wendigo]

Originally posted by Cohen:

Wendingo, you'll find when you start wars with other humans, and not Indies, that soon your troops will be slaughtered and become swordfodder to cover big monsters.

Only if I field them as fodder, which is not usually the case.

I guess our MP experiences differ, I have yet to face a 'big moster' that couldn't be killed. And when it comes to duelling, the right combination of mages+troops+SCs will beat lone/Groups of SCs any day.

[Cohen]

Troops always comes along with SC, but not ordinary troops, but summons ...

[Vynd]

When it comes to summoned monsters, perhaps part of the problem here is that so few of the summoned creatures require upkeep or supplies. Without upkeep or supplies to worry about, the only limit to the amount of magical troops you can summon is your gem income and the availability of mages.

What if summoned units required an upkeep in gems? While we're at it, how about the same for global and long-Lasting local enchantments? That would make it much more difficult to use summoned monsters as the core of your armies.


On the topic of Super Combatants, I don't have enough MP experience yet to know how bad it really is out there. But from what I read on this forum, when people are complaining about SCs being too powerful, what they are really talking about always seems to be Vampire Queens. So is this really just an aspect of the VQ issue? Or is she just the worst offender?

[Endoperez]

What summons? Ethereal beasts, like seasonal spirits or Ether monsters? Or masses of undead critters? Or any other summons with lor protection?

Cast Blade Wind a few times.

If he has low-mr critters, don't bother with Soul Slay and like. Go staright for Control or Opposition! Or if those aren't magical creatures (and even if they are) Charm should work just okay.

Also, you can use some nice magic items to give out awesome amounts of damage. As an example, Banefire is a wonderful spell that dishes out lots of armor-negating damage. Give Sceptre of Corruption (blood-4?, artifact) to someone with Bots of Quickness, and an Eye of Aiming if he nees it. Give him some bodyguards that have a chance against lesser horrors so that he stays up for a few more turns. Go Killing Them. You need some distraction for a while, so recruit cheap indies. put them before your real troops. And remember that fatique is the greatest enemy of SCs! After they have slaugheter your militia (if no life-draining) or soulless(if they have life-draining) they have collected some fatique, and now your elites can go to kill him. Remember, even as his fatique goes up he has been the targeted by most your mages and other comanders... Including those using items for Banefire, and those having Bow of Botulf, Cyclop's Bane (what's the real name of that bow?), Rod of the Phoenix, whatever. I haven't really tried it out in action, but I have killed few SC's in my MP-games. I didn't bother putting militia to the front, as my elites were more than a match for those Ulmite black pates... And Fall Bears met Blade Wind.

This might have become somewhat longish... Well, I started writing it as my 0.02?. I think it's about 0.07? ATM. Many of my favourite tricks I have never had the possibility to try out in multi.

[ April 25, 2004, 12:12: Message edited by: Endoperez ]