National troops and mages vs SC and High Magics

[johan osterman]

Hotknife: Dominions 2 doesnt have extensive province/city upgrade features, this is intentional. Adding the sort of buildings and upgrade paths you suggest would take dominions down a road that have been consciously avoided, so it is unlikely that it will ever appear in any possible future inststallment expansion or patch.

As for avoiding of super combatants, play with rich, slow research, low site frequency and agree to not pick blood nations, use a smaller map. And with curse and a few choice items or spells, most supercombatants can be countered, obviously it costs a bit but it should, since most supercombatants represent a significant investment in gems and research effort.

[Jondifool]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I cannot see any way in which having open ended dice benefits high stat units more than normal units. Take protection for example. Even with a protection of 30, a unit will quite regularly be damaged by normal troops when hit. Without open ended dice, it would be impossible to damage a unit with a high enough protection value. [/QB]

I did certainly not explain my self clearly when I said that the core problem is the open enden dice system. Though I tried, so I try again

In theory the open enden system is good. But the actual numbers make it a lot bigger advantages to the SC than to the weak troop, than a regular non open system where there INSTEAD is a cap, as exsample in form of a 10% hits always miss and and 10% always hits no matter what modifiers on rolls!

Don't let the open ende dice delude you, they are very big advantages to Super Combetants,

Modifiers on +7 or 8 hits the 10 % mark I gives as an exsample. All differense bigger than that and the open ended dice system is an advantage to the better unit.

a unit with protection 30 would only take damaged from a light infantery in around 1/200 times.

But the reason i mention it is that was not to do number chrunching but to point at the fact , that the game could be balanced to ensure that the weakest unit had a value against the best.

when using fixed numbers (always miss/hits) a game can support a situation where its a waste to use the biggest guns in a battle as there are others doing it just aswell, and more affordble to loose/get hurt at least.

I like to think of encumberence and afflicktions as the modifier there should ensure that players don't want to use their strongest troops on too easy tasks, but actual try to field the units suitable for butchering the opponent.

But with ways to get around that, my suggestion is to use a hard cap in form of a always hit alwas miss % chance as I don't see the value of this open ended dice system when difference in modifiers gets big. (In my thinking encumberence and affliktions would be nice candidates for a fix/ penality on SC, but here i don't really have a suggestion yet!)

A hard cap could be used alot better than a open ended dice system to ensure that differense doesn't get to big. Special in a game here where SC gets build better and better, with more and more dream equipment (and also getting encreased exp).

I hope I got it better explained this time

Seems to me neither considers balance, but rather playstyle and preference for what they want Dom2 to play akin to. Not what it play's like.

[Tris]

I'd disagree with a "probability cap". For me 20 militia men with fists should find it almost impossible to injure a giant in full plate armour, let alone a magically enchanted, fully equipped with legendary kit, ready-and-willing-to-kick-*** would be god.

I like the open ended system.

Although I have to admit, I can't readily come up with a way to reduce the influence of big scary things that is as simple and effective as the "probability cap". I just don't like it's implications.

Hmmm - one way would be to have a spell which locked the caster and its target into Stasis, for as long as the spell was maintained. It could cost astral each turn, or just be dispellable, or both. If the casting requirements were high enough (lots of astral? lots of water?) then the wizards to cast the spell would be rare and expensive. You'd have to get one into battle with the SC in question, and then he could cast the spell.

You could tone the power requirements of the spell based on what sort of power level of nastything you want it to be economical to "Stasis"

[Taqwus]

If somebody does substantial research and site searching, they *should* get something which isn't terribly bothered by light infantry that could have been purchased from the get-go. That's the whole point.
That said, between Curse, the large number of affliction-causing items, and the availability of AP power (Weapons of Sharpness doesn't even cost a gem, for instance), the finite equipment slots, the existence of specific counters like the unresistable Wither Bones, and pure ugliness like Gifts from Heaven or even Gate Cleaver, nothing's invulnerable.
Even a Tartarian with an outrageously good kit isn't a meaningful threat if somebody's just lopped off both its arms with Picas and Procas, and somebody else hit it a couple of times with Vision's Foe.

[Jasper]

To be blunt, if you find national mages and troops useless in the late game, than you need to improve your tactics.

They are certainly less usefull than early on, and the later you get the more magic dominates -- but even so mundane troops and mages have a substantial impact -- IMHO if you neglect them you are much more likely to lose.

If on the other hand you and your friends would just like mundane troops to be more usefull and prevalent -- just change the settings!

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Tris:
Hmmm - one way would be to have a spell which locked the caster and its target into Stasis, for as long as the spell was maintained.

This spell already exists. It paralyzes anything unresistably in combat, and is called "PETRIFY". No form of immunity or MR can protect against this: It always paralyzes at worst, and costs no gems: You can just keep casting it ad infinitum.