Advice on Machaka appreciated

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by tinkthank:

- what to do with their so-called "warriors". Fodder is nice, but what do I do early game? It seems all I have is fodder. Am I supposed to do lots of blindness/7-year-fever inducing hit-and-run attacks to weaken em up until I get juicier troops?

Personally, I go with the sacred Black Hunters; even without a strong bless, they're very solid cavalry. High morale, very high armor, solid damage. Add a good bless, and they're awesome.

Other troops? Massed archers - not great, but they don't do much damage to your own heavily armored troops.

And personally, with Machaka, I use a lot of summoned troops. Easy access to magicks for reanimating the dead, creating vine men (later ogres - both using the Vine Crown for extra effect), creating manikins, etc. Always nice to have front line troops that won't break, and that don't cost upkeep.

- My assassin seems very nice, I'd like to use him, but he's so expensive, capital only, and still dies easily to Indy normalo commanders without decent equipment (and he already starts with *bane blades*). What do I do wrong?

I don't use assassins much - but the bane spider is great for eliminating independent commanders. Takes down even mounted commanders about 50% of the time.

- PD. I know I like nations with stronger PD [...]
- How many Spies?

Nothing to say about Machaka's PD - it sucks. And since I don't use nearly enough spies, my answer wouldn't do you any good.

- Im not used to non-priestly mages (also play Tien S&A a lot); any tips?

With a little research, you have access to some nice spells, even if you have to give your mages some gems. Once you have Summon Earth Power and Summon Phoenix Power(?), even the Sorceress can cast good spells like fireball, magma bolts, etc.
Also, Blindness, Earth Grip, and Tangle Vines shouldn't be forgotten about.

Finally - a good bless strategy works wonders with those hunter lords and black hunters. Water 9 for example, to boost their defense and let them reach the enemy faster and get extra attacks. Earth 4, so they get their fatigue back more quickly. (Alternatively - E9 for more armor protection, bringing them to a whopping 26) The units may be expensive, but great. Don't forget to consider making a Hunter Lord your prophet. This allows a standalone group of Black Hunters to take provinces all by themselves; the prophet blesses them, and is even more of a brute from prophet bonuses. Just don't forget to give him a little extra oomph - bracers of defense, a lucky amulet, maybe a magic weapon. Improve the gear as the game goes forward.

HtH.

[rabelais]

Hmmm. I disagree that the priests aren't sexy. There are 3 Versions, all dirt cheap for their interesting abilities. I think except for arco and marignon, they have the sexiest priests.

(i.e.Harem Time!)

Maybe I'm silly, but I find getting a decent blessing with machaka is way too expensive. Plus the Hunters, as marvelous as they are, are overpriced. (Until they lose their riders, Heh. )

Fire/blood/death are all almost useless for the hunters. (if you got undead spiders, death would rule, but alas....)

Astral still doesn't get their post-rider MR into the survivable range. Air is potentially nice if you're using massed crossbows, but it seems rather unlikely.

Water and nature are both lovely, but you can't get them without paying through the draconic nose.

(If divine serpent were available... Yum!)

But 274 points is a lot to empower a unit you can't afford until midgame.

I like the Wyrm for a cheap SC or a rainbow with air/water/astral. Machaka is very good at summoning armies and the gems are gonna get used early and often.

Oh and the hoplites are, bar none, the most cost efficient infantry in the game. If not using a hunter bless strat, take a low gold castle (wizard tower kicks tush) and churn them out like the unstoppable death wave they are.


Rabe the Machakan Maven

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by rabelais:
Astral still doesn't get their post-rider MR into the survivable range.

Their MR without a rider is now either 10 or 11, so astral could easily bring that up a great deal.

[tinkthank]

thank you all!!

@Rabe: We have a vastly different conception of sexy. The Ear is by far the worst spy in the game, he is *always* getting caught -- for 70 gold I dont like him spying, and for 70 gold preaching? I'll take a Friar for almost half price any day. The Eye can patrol, which is... ok, but certainly not sexy. And what specials does the Voice have? No, a sexy priest is one who can summon cool monsters, fly, have magic paths, have enticing mammary glands (oh wait no forget that), be cheap, etc.

Maybe I must just learn to not want all things all the time....
ok I will try out your suggestions. Nature blessing, never tried that....

[Scott Hebert]

Mm. Machaka is about my 3rd favorite nation, so I think I have at least a few things to say about it.

Generally, I don't go for a Bless Strategy. With my Pretender, I either load up on Earth magic (burn to Forge, go insane with your versatile mages), or do something else. Yeah, I know, very helpful, but... can Machaka get the Great Mother? 4E/4N Pretender would be great for them, IMO...

With regard to the priests, no, they're not very impressive. The fact that you have a _Spy_ priest is rather good, though. OTOH, the others simply don't compare. The Voice costs the same amount as the Seraphine, with none of her benefits. Weird, that.

With regard to the troops, the Hoplites are indeed your best troop. I also like the Spider Knights, though I haven't tried the base Riders. I would think that webbing someone before they get to you and continuing to pelt them with arrows would be good.

But really, I find Machaka's strength is the versatile summoning platforms they have. Vinemen are very acceptable early (which also gets you to Construction 2 for the Fever Fetish), and a little more Research gets you Scorpions and other niceties.

As for PD... eh. My biggest complaint about Machaka is their tissue-paper PD, when I don't see why they have it for terms of balance.

[archaeolept]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rabelais:
Astral still doesn't get their post-rider MR into the survivable range.

Their MR without a rider is now either 10 or 11, so astral could easily bring that up a great deal.

---

what do you mean by this? I just checked my riderless spider in a 2.11 test game, and he had an MR of 5.

5 is not very good

[Blitz]

I'm surprised you are having trouble with Machaka, I find them one of the more balanced nations out there.

Try going with an Enchatress with F3 W3 E3 S6 as your pretender. Early in the game, she finds most sites that your mages won't, and in the later game she's a walking artillery platform after a nice ring of sorcery and staff of elemental magery.

I usually only build a few more than the starting archer compliment for my initial expansion, concentrating more on the exceptional hoplites for the bulk of my army. They stand up to any independant short of knights. Put your javlineers on the edge and have them attack archers. They will die off eventually, but as we have established... they totally suck.

Later in the game, add some archer spiders to your army, not too many since they are a whopping 50 gold, maybe a half-dozen to slow down the cavalry. Another half-dozen spider riders in front of them set to intercept cavalry will result in your opponent's flanking force being quickly webbed and ganged up on. Hoplites still comprise the bulk of your army. They can go toe to toe with most infantry, but adjust your tactics if you see tramplers!

I like to keep a seperate growing force of hunter spiders on their own, led by my prophet. Use this army to quickly reinforce border areas the hunter spider is arguably the strongest recruitable unit, and a group of 12 or so backed by skeleton summonings and priests is a match for many armies 3 or 4 times it's size.

As for the horrendous PD of Machaka, I usually plant a necromancer in my remote border locations, quietly researching until it comes time to back up the 20 strong militia. Give him a +death staff and a cheap regen item and he'll try his best to stem the tide. It's not the cheapest solution, but costs near nothing after the initial investment, and ensures you won't lose provinces to a flock of blackhawks or two knights and a priest =(.

Lastly, remember that your research chicks can morph into spiders. Try the combat sequence (stoneskin, fireshield, change shape, attack). Not bad huh?

hope this helps.