Stupid flying units getting killed makes me angry

[Tris]

This seemed an appropriate place to reply to Norfleet's sig...

"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill all, and you are a god!""

Actually, if you think about it, when you "KILL THEM ALL" you just end up being a very very lonely man.

[Vynd]

Disagree if you like, but I stand by my original opinion: flying units being stupid and plopping themselves down in front of routed units and getting themselves killed makes me angry. Chasing down units from behind, or flying up next to them and attacking them, I can live with. But personally I'd rather see a few units escape (to be killed in the next battle) than lose my expensive flying units. The whole point of using the fliers to Attack Rear is to wipe out the enemy commanders and cause an early rout, thus keeping my casualties down.

I'm not saying that this is a game breaker or anything, just that I find it personally very annoying. Also, I think the various explanations people have offered for why flying units should be getting themselves killed in this manner are more along the lines of rationalizations. I don't believe for a second that the designers sat down and thought: "Let's counterbalance the power of flying units by making them more likely to get killed by retreating units. Plus it'll help deal with the 'units should sometimes get cut-off and be forced to fight back' issue we've been worrying about." I like my own explanation better, which is that the combat system is fairly simplistic and simply can't handle concepts like "don't stand in front of retreating units, attack from the side instead."

[PvK]

But Vynd, if they "improve the AI" by making pursuing units never block enemy retreat, then Norfleet and I and others will just have new complaints about how suddenly pursuers are immune to any risk (except from the fratricidal archer AI), and how our pursuers never block the escape route.

PvK

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Tris:
This seemed an appropriate place to reply to Norfleet's sig...

"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill all, and you are a god!""

Actually, if you think about it, when you "KILL THEM ALL" you just end up being a very very lonely man.

I would have to agree that this quote from Jean Rostand has several flaws.

[Chris Byler]

In my opinion, the behavior of flying units is fine, but archers should be less likely to fire at routed enemies if there are friendly troops near them. Hold your fire and get closer instead.

If the flying units are getting killed in melee by cut off routing enemies... you need some tougher flyers. But in my experience the main threat in this situation is the archers/crossbowmen continuing to fire at the routing units and hitting their pursuers instead.

[delacroix]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
The tendency of fliers to cut off routers is a VERY GOOD THING, not a bad thing!

The few losses you may take are nothing compared to what you might lose if you allowed them to escape and regroup.

Reading Norfleet's response, I think it's a very plausible tactical option to be allowed to purposefully have flyers (or any unit) to be on reserve to attack 'only' routing units much less to engage routing units freely. Killing all escaping enemies may not win any diplomatic awards, but it certainly can turn the tide of war.

However, Vynd also has logical reasoning for not wanting his units to engage routing enemies or to avoid routing units... Of course attacking routing units does entail some risk as routing units can still fight back to a certain extent and as PVK stated its abstractly portrayed in the game, however there is no option present to avoid routing units entirely. Of course the developers don't have time to implement every little mini-order, but I think Vynd has every right to say 'this stinks' because the current combat options in regards to routing do not cater to his preferences at all if he wants to avoid those routing units.

In the perfect world we'd have an order to allow or not allow units to attack routing enemies, and then everyone would be happy to a certain extent... maybe combat expansion should be considered for dom3 hehe .

[PvK]

Originally posted by delacroix:
... Reading Norfleet's response, I think it's a very plausible tactical option to be allowed to purposefully have flyers (or any unit) to be on reserve to attack 'only' routing units much less to engage routing units freely.
...
In the perfect world we'd have an order to allow or not allow units to attack routing enemies, and then everyone would be happy to a certain extent... maybe combat expansion should be considered for dom3 hehe .

Yep, good ideas!

PvK

[ May 05, 2004, 21:04: Message edited by: PvK ]