SCs other than the vq

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I think we are all in agreement on the above issues.

As always, I think the problem is not really with the VQ so much as it is with the elemental armour. Get rid of the immunity it provides, and suddenly most mages would at least be able to damage her.

The castle and temple strategy can definetly be dealt with as well, it just takes careful planning. I almost managed it in a game as Vanheim, but the AI for my pretender killed himself with a shockwave rather than casting a useful spell.

Originally posted by archaeolept:
Again, how was it that you personally dealt w/ norfleet's strat? specifically.

If I forced myself to play against the same strategy/nation I would find the weaknesses in it. Would you like me to detail them, because Norfleet did fairly well. If you don't factor into the mix his attempts to counter what you will try to do, try these:

Dominion options: Preaching, Stealth Preaching, Marignon FoF, Cerimonial Faith, Restless Worshippers, Skeptics Starting with a Strong Punishing Dominion and placement of Temples.

Castle options: Multi-pronged attacks, Scouts+Gate Cleavers, Crumble, Ghouls/reanimators/Flyers, Stealth Armies attacking Castle.

VQ options: Really too many to list, you've said yourself that you know how to kill them, it's only the factor of them coming back for more the next turn, yes? If you need more ideas, I can list a few if you give me the nation you use.

[archaeolept]

well, the dominion doesn't tend to be a problem for me, since I spend a lot of effort preparing for his dominion swamp.

however, none of your castle dealing strats seem especially useful, or presuppose that I have a much greater number of armies than he does. especially since none of the forces you mention seem capable of dealing w/ a real VQ, or even some hastily gatewayed in national troops

and killing a VQ isn't so much a problem, as that all of your armies need the capability if they try to invade. and, at best, you do nothing to her.

Norfleet has played probably dozens of games around here. I'm sure you must have encountered him. What specifically did you do to conquer his castles?

[ May 04, 2004, 22:26: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

Originally posted by archaeolept:
I'm only referring to those beta-testers who have responded to this issue in these Boards. i have no way of judging any of the others, other than by the fact that this strat, which has been around for, what, a couple months, seems to be news to Kristoffer O. How could this be if the beta-testers had been testing this as well?

Again, as any given random nation, how was it that I'm supposed to invade these ermorian castles? oh, yes, by using many VQ invulnerable armies and then guessing which is the best castle to invade...

(since, if your armies aren't immune to the VQ... hahaha)

Well the strategy has been around and Norfleet has been doing well with it, but how many games win by doing that exact same thing in the exact same fashion? Most games Last at least a month, so if it's been around a month and it's 'so unbalanced I must pitch a fit' this it the point and time where it might be tested or not. The simple fact that KO didn't know about it could mean any variety of things, not the least of which is his desire to play with hammeringly bad scales and roleplayed pretenders.

Originally posted by archaeolept:
however, none of your castle dealing strats seem especially useful, or presuppose that I have a much greater number of armies than he does. especially since none of the forces you mention seem capable of dealing w/ a real VQ, or even some hastily gatewayed in national troops

Maybe you should try them before you talk. Castling every province has been around before Norfleet beat you with it. But maybe casual rejection of ideas is why you don't think them useful.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by archaeolept:
How does one conquer ermorian castles defended by an uber VQ? other than by creating a vast world-wide alliance w/ a dozen committed armies...

However, all you have to do is strike at an Ermorian castle with sufficient force to begin damaging the gates. Cast Crumble, and you'll have an instant breach, if you felt your regular army was not enough to breach.

---

I was under this distinct impression that the castle destroying/rebuilding spells were not working properly,... is this old data, or am I more generally confused?

I'm not sure, btw, that an naked immortal (i.e.risk free) pretender design that requires multiple simultaneous successful castle assaults to counter is ... quite balanced.

Shall I repost the note I left in the other thread detailing the absurdity of your defense of the VQ castling strat, ...

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...583;p=1#000050

or can we just concede the extremity of the situation is broken and needs to be looked at... with care that immortality isn't abusable in a different chassis.

Rabe

Originally posted by archaeolept:

Norfleet has played probably dozens of games around here. I'm sure you must have encountered him. What specifically did you do to conquer his castles?

I've only played with him once and I never needed to conquer his castles. When I was around to play with him the few times I had time he was still clutching to his 'only World Map' preference.