Totally off-topic poll

tinkthank · #1 May 8th, 2004, 01:19 AM

Although Kerry may be a wimp, he is certainly not the embodiment of evil , as G. W. Bush has proven himself to be. Together with Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tenet and Rice they have now (with the recent knowledge that the atrocities commited by soldiers upon prisoners in Iraq and Cuba are by no means isolated mishaps but sympomatic results of a systematic means-justifies-the-ends utilitarianism and demonization or dehumanization of that which is deemed a foreign threat being the dead giveaway) succeeded in drastically harming America for what will certainly prove to be 50 years or more (not to mention all the other damage to civil liberties, human rights, and other once-upheld American ideals, as well as ecological and economical damage).

I think Americans must vote for Kerry, since they have created an electorial system (which might have made sense in the 18th century but is certainly senatorial and aristocratic (in the original sense of the word) in both origin and nature) to which they dogmatically adhere and which unfortunately disbars faith in "direct representation" by allowing at present only 2 nationally funded parties (a non-trivial consequence of which is the fact that should there be one less party (a total of 1 instead of 2) we would have a dictatorship).

johan osterman · #2 May 7th, 2004, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinkthank:
Although Kerry may be a wimp, he is certainly not the embodiment of evil , as G. W. Bush has proven himself to be. Together with Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tenet and Rice they have now (with the recent knowledge that the atrocities commited by soldiers upon prisoners in Iraq and Cuba are by no means isolated mishaps but sympomatic results of a systematic means-justifies-the-ends utilitarianism and demonization or dehumanization of that which is deemed a foreign threat being the dead giveaway) succeeded in drastically harming America for what will certainly prove to be 50 years or more (not to mention all the other damage to civil liberties, human rights, and other once-upheld American ideals, as well as ecological and economical damage).

...

I don't think the abuse is a result of any policy or rethoric, as far as I can tell these things almost ivariably crop up whenever people are given the amount of power over other people that prison guards do under these circumstances. The failure here is not as much the official rethoric as failing to insure that the proper checks and control mechanisms are in place to stop these sort of things, or so I believe.

johan osterman · #3 May 7th, 2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinkthank:
...
allowing at present only 2 nationally funded parties (a non-trivial consequence of which is the fact that should there be one less party (a total of 1 instead of 2) we would have a dictatorship).

If we had five less parties represented in the swedish parlament (a total of 1 instead of 6) Sweden would also be a dictatorship, if we accept your usage of the term.

tinkthank · #4 May 7th, 2004, 02:37 PM

Actually, JO, that is what I believed up until the recent reports that this form of behavior was explicitly *encouraged* by the military intelligence agency and a part of the pentagon. The Tolstoy dictum ("give a man a uniform and a drum and he will turn into a monster") is certainly true, but has been exacerbated under the mistaken idea that this would lead to easier access to gleaning information from potential terrorists about future plans. Really.

tinkthank · #5 May 7th, 2004, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by tinkthank:
...
allowing at present only 2 nationally funded parties (a non-trivial consequence of which is the fact that should there be one less party (a total of 1 instead of 2) we would have a dictatorship).

If we had five less parties represented in the swedish parlament (a total of 1 instead of 6) Sweden would also be a dictatorship, if we accept your usage of the term.

Yes, but you have 6, we only have 2. This is not a mere contingency and it is not a trivial difference.

Cainehill · #6 May 7th, 2004, 04:00 PM

"Tired of choosing the lesser of two evils? Vote Cthulu!"

(Quote from a pin that was massively popular in the ... 80s when I frequented a lot of OrcCons and other gaming conventions.)

Gandalf Parker · #7 May 7th, 2004, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinkthank:
Yes, but you have 6, we only have 2. This is not a mere contingency and it is not a trivial difference.

Who has 2? I know it represents alot of people but if you mean the US then there are (I think) 6 that are nationally recognized, and 4 represented in congress

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