Play The World

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Norfleet, you do reilize that you have completely destroyed whatever little was left of your reputation as both Dom2 player and honest person, right???

I don't think anybody who will read this thread (or "Ice and Fire" thread on GoneGold MP forum) will want to play with you in the future.

You can believe that. I don't think that people will find it so unreasonable if I felt like joining a game undercover for once.

Is it so ABSOLUTELY UNREASONABLE to think I might actually want to try and see if my supposed reputation actually makes such a difference, by joining anonymously for a bit?

No, I think not.

More importantly, we're becoming increasingly off-topic, not that you were ever a part of this topic. If you want to continue this entire line of inquiry, kindly take it to another thread that I can duly ignore.
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Therefore, let us now put the real issue on the table:
In the event that Graeme declines to be reasonable about this, and spoils the game by pulling out suddenly, do we:

A. Bot him and continue, knowing that somebody who started next to him now has a grouchy neighbor...
B. Attempt to restart the game without him.
C. Cancel the game.

What do the ACTUAL PLAYERS of the game, of which Stormbind is not one, think we should do?

[Tris]

>You can believe that. I don't think that people will find it so unreasonable if I felt like joining a game undercover for once.<

Not at all.

What I think people find unreasonable is joining a game, and asking other players about their strategies with a different name, without stating that you are actually playing the game.

I think people probably find that sickening.

[Zapmeister]

What do the ACTUAL PLAYERS of the game, of which Stormbind is not one, think we should do?

I vote for a restart.

[Reverend Zombie]

I vote restart.

[ May 24, 2004, 11:53: Message edited by: Reverend Zombie ]

[Vynd]

I vote to restart.

[ May 24, 2004, 11:58: Message edited by: Vynd ]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
See, as a Norfleet he was constantly soliciting information from each of Pkahar Njar's (his alias in our game) neigbors with questions such as "So what are you going to do about Caelum?" (Caelum was Pakhar's nation). "How is your war against Caelum going?" , "How are you going to attack Caelum now?". (all these are exact quotes)

I'm not going to enter into a debate about Norfleet's ethics on this, as it strikes me as a shade of gray.

However - given the early mutterings that Pakhar Njal was really Norfleet, and Stormbinder's repeatedly voiced suspicions of this, what does it tell you of certain people's intelligence and common sense, that they _kept_ talking to Norfleet about their strategies in this game???

(Note also that I'm uncertain whether Norfleet was "pumping" them for information - what I heard on the IRC channel sounded more like people eagerly, even desperately, seeking to talk with him for advice.)

And yes, I was paying attention, because.... I knew from fairly early on that Norfleet was Pakhar Njal. Didn't really matter to me because I was on the opposite corner from him. Didn't say anything because he'd told this to me in confidence - and honor, keeping my word, has always been more important to me than ethics.

Personally, I get sick of the instant, constant, bleating coalitions of the frightened clamoring for alliances against Ermor, and also against Norfleet and other "Norfleeting" players.

Maybe it's just me - but the day I beat someone, say Norfleet, I want it to be because of my strategies and skill, not because I joined a lynch mob to bring his downfall.

But I didn't think that PJ and norfleet are actually the same since Pakhar showed himself to be pretty mediocore player, making many stupid mistakes, and I though that Norfleet, despite all his faults, is at least an expert player. Blah!

Mediocre, hmmm? Why was there all the panic then? All the Messages to all of us insisting you needed help, as though the Beast was about to imminently swallow the earth if you didn't get Lances from one person, wraith swords from another, sappers bidded on by someone else?

Either he wasn't mediocre, or possibly my suspicions about these things were correct - the desperate need for alliance wasn't so much because it was needed to defeat PN, but because it would afford you the opportunity to grow to immense size, with gifts of magic gems and items, other people wasting their resources casting remote attack spells on someone they weren't in contact with, etc.

And - he made mistakes? You were talking about how you were able to take some of his provinces. About how you killed one of his Air Queens, I think. I never realized that not making mistakes would prevent a person from ever having one of their provinces taken or commanders killed.

You have to concentrate your forces and attempt to pick your battles, sometimes try to anticipate where the enemy will attack. Sometimes you anticipate correctly. Sometimes, you would have been better off calling the Psychic Friends hotline.

And finally, in closing - you do realize how amusing your incessant "STFU" statements to Norfleet were? "You aren't in that game - STFU!" Even when he commented to you, several times, "Cainehill knew something you didn't", you ignored him and again, "STFU". Hilarious.

(STFU is an acronym for "Shut the F--- Up", which some might consider a crude and rude thing to say to someone else, even when cloaked in a well known acronym.)

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Perhaps, except that I only asked him questions I already knew the answers to anyway.

You cannot seriously be suggesting that you knew the answer to the question:
"So, what do you plan to do about Caelum?" ?

All of this could simply have been avoided by a declaration of your identity. Again, my apologies if I've misunderstood the scenario.

quote:

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You have somewhat misunderstood the scenario: Namely, that the entire point of the exercise was to observe how they reacted to an alleged third party employing my strategy, and how quickly recognized it would be.

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The point of the exercise from your perspective is not in question. The question is whether the behaviour, whatever its motivation, was ethical.

I've just read the Gone Gold material and have to say that I'm appalled. I was originally prepared to give you the benefit of my doubt, but not any more.

Many people regard this kind of behaviour as dishonest, at the very least.

quote:

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I am not the only person to have entered games under an anonymous alias. I do not see anything unusual about this.

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It's not unusual.
Nor is it the issue, and I think you know that.

It is now clear to me that in this "Fire and Ice" game, you perpetrated a deception outside the context of diplomacy. It was a deception that could have given you an advantage in the game - whether it actually did deliver any advantage is irrelevant. In other words, you cheated.

Please do not join any games I start in the future.