Worst Summon ??

[Kel]

While I think the basis for the values of a summon should not be based on unusual circumstances, as is the Treelords, I have actually used them once or twice now.

Basically, I didn't have high nature mages, except for my pretender and I had better things to do with my pretender than summon tarrasque. Additionally, i had a site with conjuration bonus but none with Construction. So I summoned one Treelord and let him summon tarrasque after that (note that one of the treelords is actually 5N, though I didn't get that one).

Now, i could have forged items to do it but it would have cost a good bit more.

I don't think it qualifies it as a good summons at all...but I felt obliged to mention the one case where I found a use for it

- Kel

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Kel:
While I think the basis for the values of a summon should not be based on unusual circumstances, as is the Treelords, I have actually used them once or twice now.

Basically, I didn't have high nature mages, except for my pretender and I had better things to do with my pretender than summon tarrasque. Additionally, i had a site with conjuration bonus but none with Construction. So I summoned one Treelord and let him summon tarrasque after that (note that one of the treelords is actually 5N, though I didn't get that one).

Now, i could have forged items to do it but it would have cost a good bit more.

I don't think it qualifies it as a good summons at all...but I felt obliged to mention the one case where I found a use for it

- Kel

For less gems you could have done exactly the same thing by summoning an Ivy King then given him the item(s) which raise nature magic. Even adding the cost of the forged items still makes the Ivy King cheaper.

[ May 17, 2004, 20:28: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Kel]

[quote]Originally posted by NTJedi:

For less gems you could have done exactly the same thing by summoning an Ivy King then given him the item(s) which raise nature magic. Even adding the cost of the forged items still makes the Ivy King cheaper.

Not true !

I had a 30 conj site. Thus, Treelord = 35 gems. 66% chance I need a 1 N enhancer. 33% chance I don't and I can start summoning next turn instead of forging. So average cost is 35 gems + 2/3rds of a moonvine (18 gems). Total = 53 gems.

Ivy King = 14 gems
Plus Treelords = 40 gems
Total = 54 gems + it takes longer to get to summoning.

Could have done moonvines + thistle mace but it would have taken even longer to get to the summoning of Tarrasques.

- Kel

edited some mistakes.

[ May 17, 2004, 21:18: Message edited by: Kel ]

[odd_enuf]

treelords are enchantments, not conjurations, so a conjuration site wouldn't help.

odd_enuf

[Kel]

Doh, entirely true, my mistake.

Otoh, if I had an enchantment site (I didn't), wouldn't that make it even more clear cut sinec Ivy King wouldn't get a discount at all ?

- Kel

[PvK]

Originally posted by Master Shake:
Personally, I love cave drakes for early Ulm expansion. They are awesome for soaking up indy missles, and cavalry charges. Even with a handful of afflications, their role as a pin cushion is unparalleled.

I agree. I've mentioned Podarkes, my elite Cave Drake flying carpet commando squad leader, before.

PvK

[PvK]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
I dislike those early game summons that only call one unit. It takes simply to lang / too many mages to produce enough of these summons to make them usefull. Take Vine Ogres as an example. They are good early game troops, however you need 10 nature mages with ivy crowns to summon 20 of them, which is the minimum for a decent force. Compared to the 2 earth mages that would give you 24 Clockwork Horrors, this is ridiculous.

Druids with Ivy Crown and Thistle Mace summon 2/turn for ONE nature gem, and have the upkeep of 7 infantry. A nature-1 mage with a treelord staff and ivy crown can bring 3/turn for one nature gem, and probably even less maintenance. Crank crank crank... Clockwork Horrors use a bunch of earth gems, and IIRC require magical leadership. Anyone can lead vine ogres around, and they are relatively tough compared to Clockwork Horrors. Lots of different pros and cons, but Vine Ogres are quite good, even in fairly small numbers, as long as you combine them effectively with other troops. The point is not to make an ALL VINE OGRE army... that wouldn't be so hot. However, combined as something ELSE the enemy must deal with, along with whatever else you have, vine ogres can make a big difference, especially because they don't use food, are fairly fast, and you get a lot of toughness for every spare ordinary leadership point you have.

PvK