Item List: Most Used, Less Useful etc etc

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Cohen:
A fully equipped Allfather can take out much more than 30 seasonal spirit, even with a magic trinket sword

The dominions I allfather was a human sized rainbow type pretender IIRC, not the giant combat type we have now.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Arralen:
supply items:
The cauldron gives 50 supply, while the bag only nets 25 points - and both add up, so it does make sense to forge one or two of them for your biggest armies.
Don't forget the Summer Sword (N-2, E-1), 50 supply for 10 gems.

'worthless' items:
Hunter's Knife
Berseker Pelt
Slave Collar
Ring of the Warrior
Flesh Eater


.. that's not much from a list of .. what .. 500 items ?
Some of the other may have only very special uses, but they do have them. Only those above are (IMHO) easily replaced by better ones from the same research level or have simply next to no effect.

I agree about the hunters knife, since the serpent kyrss is better.

The flesh eater and ring of the warrior items are *FAR* from useless. This is because they cost blood slaves rather than gems. And yet let you hit ethereal.

I found them most helpful as a basic loadout for my Jarls when fighting SG ermor. The ring increases your repel ability, and gives you a much better shot at hitting enemy SC's.

I think more blood weapons would be great. particularly one that caused fear.

The slave collar IMHO should make the owner NEVER rout, so it is at least potentially useful.

And I still like my proposed equipable resource item, so that cap only bless strategies can max out, if they wish.


Rabe... Blood Armorer in Extremis

[ May 25, 2004, 22:50: Message edited by: rabelais ]

[Norfleet]

The Elf Bane has an effectiveness on a rather narrow range of targets, though: Lifeless, magical beings. If it's not lifeless, a Wraith or Blood Thorn works better, as to get an equivalent effect out of the Elf Bane, you'll have to give up at least 1 other equipment slot: Something to take care of either fatigue or regeneration....or both, costing you potentially two slots.

There's a few other items which appear to be rather useless, unless you count loading them onto sacrificial lambs so that they can die and have the items possibly be picked up by an enemy you wish to curse. Seems to be a rather lame and artificial use, but hey, it's there, it works, you deal.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Cohen:
Pvk do you really believe it was the Elf Bane the difference?

A fully equipped Allfather can take out much more than 30 seasonal spirit, even with a magic trinket sword

Yep. As Graeme mentioned, in Dominions I, the Allfather was a rainbow mage and a good fighter, but not a giant. I had just seen a large veteran army of Vanheim troops, including equipped heroic commanders, get wiped out by seasonal spirits, since even the heroes with magic weapons, required multiple hits on a lion to kill one, by which time their friends were killed and they would be overwhelmed. The Allfather and another leader (with slightly better defense equipment too, IIRC) just stood toe-to-toe with a huge number of lions, wiped them out, and went on to slay others. It was close though, as the fatigue added up.

In Doms II, although seasonal spirits are less of a threat due to their increased cost, it's still effective as an early rush tactic if enough gems are available. And later on, there are still some very powerful magical beings, so it's good there is an effective anti-weapon.

PvK

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PvK:
I had just seen a large veteran army of Vanheim troops, including equipped heroic commanders, get wiped out by seasonal spirits, since even the heroes with magic weapons, required multiple hits on a lion to kill one, by which time their friends were killed and they would be overwhelmed.

Wouldn't they have held out much better with lifedrain weapons that would actually replenish their life and fatigue as they fought? While the kill rate would have been slower, they could have then fought indefinitely.

The Allfather and another leader (with slightly better defense equipment too, IIRC) just stood toe-to-toe with a huge number of lions, wiped them out, and went on to slay others. It was close though, as the fatigue added up.

I say again: Wraith Swords, Blood Thorns, and you could have fought an indefinite number without having it be "close".

In Doms II, although seasonal spirits are less of a threat due to their increased cost, it's still effective as an early rush tactic if enough gems are available. And later on, there are still some very powerful magical beings, so it's good there is an effective anti-weapon.

I would think they'd be a better weapon against things like Mechanical Mans, Golems, Crushers, Iron Dragons, and the like, which are lifeless, and therefore, negate the benefits of using a blood thorn or wraith sword, and thus the extra punch can help. Otherwise, you'd think that being able to indefinitely sustain combat, regardless of the kill rate, would be more valuable.

My point: Would a more classical choice, namely, Wraith Swords and Blood Thorns, have been a better choice? Lions, after all, have 0 protection, so it's not like the increased damage would help you tear through armor better...and you'd get life and fatigue back while fighting, negating the enemy's damage, as opposed to simply substituting another lion in place of the dead one flailing at you: It replaces the concept of a hitpoint pool, with a hitpoint buffer. The only time I'd see the Elf Bane as being superior in such a case is if you had an alternate source of lifedrain, such as a Soul Vortex.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
My point: Would a more classical choice, namely, Wraith Swords and Blood Thorns, have been a better choice?

I doubt that Vanheim would have had access to either by turn 10-15, which is when armies of multiple castings of seasonal spirits started to show up in Dom I.

[Arralen]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Arralen:
supply items:
The cauldron gives 50 supply, while the bag only nets 25 points - and both add up, so it does make sense to forge one or two of them for your biggest armies.

The cauldron costs more gems per supply unit, and you can use two wineskins on two scouts, so there is no reason to build them.

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O.C. you may start piling up additional scout. But it adds to MM.
And than don't forget those who play with slow research - rushing for Con-4 might not be an option for them.

[ May 26, 2004, 04:51: Message edited by: Arralen ]