Abysya Help Request.

[Teraswaerto]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
.
But I doubt that the choice between the DB and the WA (like almost ANY choice in Dom2) is a "no-brainer".

I'm sure the WA has it's place in some strategies and play styles. I was merely explaining why, in my opinion, one is better off recruiting DBs instead of WAs.

I usually recruit WA's for Blood Duty more than Research Duty (though, they provide that function as well).

Often with Abysia, you are early game pounding with Troops and then at some point (usually turn 15ish) have to do a massive switch to blood to either field an immediate Devil Army (which your 4+ DB's can summon), Ice Devil or begin production of Soul Contracts. You can field quite a few more WA's than DB's when doing this because of the mandatory use of high gold troops that will allow you to win against nearby neighbors. And while mobility is a factor, I find it more important in those situations to have quantity of hunters over a highly mobile fewer.

[ June 11, 2004, 15:51: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Cohen]

Well, I'm probably pretty slower since my blood hunt starts on turn 20 if not 30 ...

The real problem is that I can't keep the pace of enemy research when I turn my guys blood hunting! Even with magic-3 scale.

[Mardagg]

Just some thoughts:

On small and crowded maps,Abysia is able to compete with the other nations even with bad research,because you can field nice armies via Blood Magic without the need to research a lot in this area.Every Demonbred is able to summon a Devil per turn for example.Of course you have to play very aggressively and maybe with a 9er Fire or Earth Blessing (for Lava Warriors) to get strong armies very fast.I have had great success with a Magic Scale of 0 in this type of games.

On big games,research is without a doubt very important.
Of course its all a matter of prefered playing style,but IMO you have to find a tactic with Abyisa that allows for a very good early expansion AND strong scales(Order 3/Productivity 3/Magic at least 2).
The first turns ,I always build Warlock Apprentices and all Heavy Infantries I can afford with the help of alchemzing the Fire Gems.If I have money left,I build a Demonbred instead of the Warlock Apprentices until I have 2 to search the newly conquered provinces immideately for Fire/Holy/Blood Sites.Afterwards I build the expensive Warlocks to get some important random picks,like 3 Astral,4 Blood or 1 Earth(to be able to summon Demon knights with help of Blood Stone).
I always make sure to produce a capital only mage every turn,If you cant do it,you did something wrong,mostly that means you did expand too slow or you didnt concentrate your efforts on the income rich provinces
I find conquering Indie provinces with Abyisa quite easy.
A bunch of Heavy Infantries+your starting Infantries+Anathemant Salamander(for Fanatism/Flare)+ a Pretender that is able to cast Flare will conquer most provinces with few,if any,losses.
Strong Crossbowmen provinces I leave for Slayers to assassinate the leaders,which I produce as soon as I have a second castle,and scouts to take afterwards.
Strong Knight Provinces I leave,until I can use my 1-2 Demonbreds also for battle ,i.e.until I have researched Fireball.

Research Construction 4 first.Afterwards Evocation for Fireball and then Blood.
Fireball is quite important for my playing style regarding initial expansion.
If there is a very strong indie province,I can use Demonbreds to cast several Fireballs and thus to support my army.Fireball causes much less Fatigue and as such is the better spell for Fire 2 and also Fire 3 Mages than Flare.
Because your mages have very bad precision,I prefer to be able to cast 4-5 times Fireball with every mage per Battle than 2 times Flare with Anathemants only.
Generally,as soon as I have 2 armies going,a second castle and a Slayer pack(effectively resulting in 3 armies that can conquer indie provinces) i send 2 aprrentices on blood hunt to get slaves for dousing rods.
Now that you begin building up a blood economy(depending on the strength of your surrounding indie provinces and income they give you,this is always doable by turn 10-15) you desperately need another province to produce mages for research.
If you dont have at least 1 library yet,search for magic sites more deeply,with 1 or 2 warlocks,preferable with Nature or Earth random pick, and 2 demonbreds.Sometimes you find a site which gives you indie mages.If you still have bad luck,prepare to attack one of your human neighbours.
Its a simple thought:If I cant compete in research ,I need more provinces/Income/gems than the research strong nations to be able to compete.
As soon as I get good research up,I try to make peace and concentrate on higher Blood magic summons.At this time I only produce mages,no normal troops anymore.

My prefered Pretender for this is a Scorpion King with 4Fire/4 Earth.
He is an ok battle mage right from the start via Flare and later Legions of Steel+the ideal magic site searcher for the start especially in mountain provinces.
Also he can produce some items for you to get your Earth 1 random Warlocks to produce Dwarfen hammers.Later he can forge Elemental armors for you and can cast some good ritual spells with help of magic boosting items.
I rarely build him up as an SC,because as a blood nation you normally can field lots of strong other SC`s.

[PDF]

I now have a good experience with Abysia (several MP games), here're my views :
HI : quite good, with Fire Res being a great power cause it allows Anathemants to fire astray without collateral damage ! They are somewhere between a human warrior and a Jotun one. But their morale is only so-so, so SoC or Fanaticism are really needed in support.
Forget about the LW though, they're too costly to make them good for a Bless strategy and their unbearable enc (14 !!!) makes them sitting ducks after 5 combat rounds..
Mages : I don't agree with the fact that WA are "useless" : they're cheaper than DB, better researchers, and have Astral Magic. This is a very serious point, because in early game, after getting Alt3, you have a pretty effective force with say 25 HI, 3 WA casting B.Ether*3, and a couple Anathemants for Fireballs and SoC.
WA are also your best Blood Hunters.
So DBs are mainly my Demon armies leaders, with WA doing housekeeping ...

Abysian strength lies in Blood, so Cons4 should be researched asap to get the (in)famous Soul Contract (use a Warlock with Armor of Blood and Brazen vessel). Then Blood Magic to 5 for Horde from Hell, second only to Ghost Riders in term of usefulness vs cost in the genre.
Abysia is stronger in "mid game", but you'll soon have a problem with Research unless you've found some indy Library... In this case go to Cons6, build Lanterns and focus on Blood only.

I agree with the proposal of a Scorpion Pretender, but I rather give him Fire2/Earth3/Air3. Fire isn't really needed, Earth gives Dw Hammer, Legion of Steel, Ironskin and Blade Wind, Air allows with Earth to make Elem Staff, Eyes of Prec,Quills, Staff of Storms, cast Seeking Arrows... very complementary to Abysia.

Overall Abysia is quite powerful but needs some "focus", more than say Man or Arco IMHO.
BoH theme is another beast : more Blood, less Fire, human troops...

[Mardagg]

I prefer Fire 4 with the Scorpion because I want my Pretender to make good use of starting spell Flare to expand quickly.
To do this you need Fire 4,because with 3 you get exhausted to quickly.
Earth 4 to get to some good globals without empowerment and to cast Legions of Steel.
IMO Earth Magic is very important for Abysia.

If I want then ,lets say,a castle, Order 3,Productivitiy 3,Magic 2,Growth 0,Luck 0(or Growth 1,Luck -1 ),Dominion 6 ,there are no points left for Air.

[ June 12, 2004, 21:31: Message edited by: Mardagg ]

[PDF]

Originally posted by Mardagg:
I prefer Fire 4 with the Scorpion because I want my Pretender to make good use of starting spell Flare to expand quickly.
To do this you need Fire 4,because with 3 you get exhausted to quickly.
Earth 4 to get to some good globals with help of Blood Stone and Earth Boots only(=Earth 6) and to cast Legions of Steel.
IMO Earth Magic is very important for Abysia.

If I want then ,lets say,a castle, Order 3,Productivitiy 3,Magic 2,Growth 0,Luck 0(or Growth 1,Luck -1 ),Dominion 6 ,there are no points left for Air.

Fire : vs weak indies you don't need Flare, or at worst get a Dragon for that.
Earth : Scorpion can't wear Boots, and it's hard for Abysia to get Blood Stone (1 in 8 random path for Warlock...). The Elem Staff is a surer bet.
Anyway high level Earth isn't needed either IMHO.
Scales : take Death3, and you'll get plenty of points . And why Dom6 ? 5 is enough for me