Pretender Balance Mod

[Cohen]

I've took vision of the Zen's mod.

Great Enchantress is very high for 70 points, even if she has 2S and produce 2 pearls at turn, and is ethereal, she's 9 Hit Points, this means an arrow can easily slay her.

I expected some more for the Great Sage, while the Crone is widely stronger for the same amount of costs. THe difference of stats is insignificant since they're both so low that you cannot really send them in the battle, because they risk arrowing too. But the Crone starts with 2 spell levels, G.S. with none, and the 6 (8-2) points of better research didn't make a true difference, if we consider Crone has also a slightly lesser cost for some spell levels.

I don't understand why Frost Father has 1W1D instead of 2W or 1W1A.

Arch Mage? Left as it was except some better stats? Well at least 1 arrow shouldn't kill him.

Druids are pretty nice.

Didn't checked the Caelumnian Seraph and the other ones. I want back the Abysyan G.Warlock!

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Cohen:
I've took vision of the Zen's mod.

I don't have time for that, but I'm considering it. This whole thread has been very interesting.

I want back the Abysyan G.Warlock!

I thought adding pretenders to a nation was added in as a modding command a patch or two ago... Is this not the case?

[Scott Hebert]

Some very interesting discussion here since I Last posted.

Unfortunately, most of it cannot be modded, and I haven't brought up my thoughts on this and similar subjects because I'm trying to do a mod, not suggest how to change the game.

Something along the non-moddable line I thought would make sense is to tack on the 'path cost' on _each_ level of a new path you bought. You could then reduce the 'path costs' of the humans to 0, and charge 8 points for the first level in each path, just like when buying the first point in a path you already have.

This would _certainly_ make it so that the giants are pigeonholed. You simply couldn't make an Earth Mother with any significant magic outside of Earth and Nature if it cost (80 + 'normal cost') for each level in non-Earth/Nature paths. Maybe 1 Water for Quickness, but that's it.

That may be too restrictive. I don't know. But I do know that I can't mod that currently, so it's just a theory.

On another note, I'm interested in looking at Zen's mod. I also have another project that I'll post on shortly.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Endoperez:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cohen:
I want back the Abysyan G.Warlock!

I thought adding pretenders to a nation was added in as a modding command a patch or two ago... Is this not the case?

---

It was. All that's needed to add a pretender choice to a nation should be:

#selectmonster -monsternumber-
#restrictedgod -nationnumber-
#end

In general it does work. However when I tried to give the VQ back to Ermor, it didn't work for Ermor. I haven't tried with the warlock, but if someone knows the monster number for him, I'd be glad to try it.

Otherwise, they could still be added, but would need to be reconstructred, which works for many not-too-complex types, but getting the graphics is a bit of a chore (I have several mods more or less ready but stalled because it takes me hours to get the sprites right).

---

I like the general ability & path-adding/boosting approach of Zen's mod (1W1D would be useful for Frost father since cold and undead go together, though I agree 2W or 1W1A might be more appropriate).

I also like the idea of a code tweak that would mean humans could be better at raising paths they don't start with, without needing to give them all a starting level. Seems like a long shot for IW to agree and code it, though.

Another possible approach would be to increase new path costs for non-humans even farther, but that would reduce the options for non-humans, which might not be good.

PvK

[ June 20, 2004, 19:40: Message edited by: PvK ]

[Scott Hebert]

It was. All that's needed to add a pretender choice to a nation should be:

#selectmonster -monsternumber-
#restrictedgod -nationnumber-
#end

In general it does work. However when I tried to give the VQ back to Ermor, it didn't work for Ermor. I haven't tried with the warlock, but if someone knows the monster number for him, I'd be glad to try it.

According to the ID file, he's 486. Skratti appears to be 500.

Otherwise, they could still be added, but would need to be reconstructred, which works for many not-too-complex types, but getting the graphics is a bit of a chore (I have several mods more or less ready but stalled because it takes me hours to get the sprites right).

The graphics is a problem.

I like the general ability & path-adding/boosting approach of Zen's mod (1W1D would be useful for Frost father since cold and undead go together, though I agree 2W or 1W1A might be more appropriate).

I think the reason he's WD is because he's an Ice Druid, and Ice Druids get WD. I see it as perfectly appropriate that he's WD.

I also like the idea of a code tweak that would mean humans could be better at raising paths they don't start with, without needing to give them all a starting level. Seems like a long shot for IW to agree and code it, though.

It doesn't too hard to code, to be honest. I'm not a programmer, though.

Another option is to vary path costs by the nation you choose. Abysia gets cheap Fire and Blood, but very bad Water, etc.

Another possible approach would be to increase new path costs for non-humans even farther, but that would reduce the options for non-humans, which might not be good.

I personally think that this doesn't really solve the problem, because of the math I originally posted. Now, if the path cost was _cumulative_ (meaning: first new path was pathcost, second new path was 2xpathcost), it would enhance the 'specialist' vs. 'generalist' role that the path cost already serves.

Note: I don't think that the old path costs may be appropriate under this new system.