How much should a Random-5 Mage cost?

[Scott Hebert]

Can anyone tell me if the picks of the Loremaster are indeed random? That's a 4-Random mage (with a large research bonus, IIRC) for 150g (calculated cost: 142.27).

Also, does anyone know of a large detriment to the Circle Master?

Also, I note that the Master of the 5 Elements Random is only in Elemental. This guarantees him to be a 2/1/1/1 mage. So:

Commander: 30
HH: 20
2/1/1/1 Magic: 130
That comes out to 180.

Almost finished with the stats.

[ June 20, 2004, 00:01: Message edited by: Scott Hebert ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
The probability that the Master of the Five Elements is a 1/1/1/1/1/1 is 0.375. That is worth 90g.

Are you sure about that cost? The average cost for a mage with 1 magic skill and 2 holy magic is more around 80-90 gold.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
Can anyone tell me if the picks of the Loremaster are indeed random?

Very likely. I've seen 1-1-1-1, 2-1-1, 2-2 and 3-1, although I'm not sure I've ever seen an all-elemental or an all-sorcery. So it's either 4 x 1? or 1Elem + 1Sorc + 2 x 1?.

Also, does anyone know of a large detriment to the Circle Master?

If you're looking for hidden weaknesses in the Circle Master that would explain his low cost, he hasn't any - at least, none I'm aware of.

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Are you sure about that cost? The average cost for a mage with 1 magic skill and 2 holy magic is more around 80-90 gold.

The way I calculated the cost for a 1/1/1/1/1/1 magic path was as follows:

First path, first level: 30 points.
Second path, first level: 20 points.
Third path, first level: 10 points.

These values are all from the Modding Guide on Illwinter's site. As stated in the original post, I am going to assume that further paths do _not_ depreciate like the first paths. From this:

Fourth path, first level: 10 points.
Fifth path, first level: 10 points.
Sixth path, first level: 10 points.

Add those all up, and you get 90g. Multiply this by the probability of getting a Master of the Five Elements with this (0.375), and you get 33.75. I then calculated the value of a 2/1/1/1/1 magic path, as follows:

First path, second level: 90 points.
Second path, first level: 20 points.
Third path, first level: 10 points.
Fourth path, first level: 10 points.
Fifth path, first level: 10 points.

This comes to 140 points. If you multiply this value by the probability of getting a Master of the Five Elements with those magic paths (0.625), you get 87.5.

Now, if we add together the 87.5 and the 33.75, we get a total of 121.25. This is the magic path cost for a mage with 5 paths at 1, plus 1 random pick. Add to this the cost for Holy-2 (20), and the base cost for the commander (30), and you will get the total calculated cost for a Master of the Five Elements.

121.25 + 20 + 30 = 171.25

This is not its actual cost (190). I'm not exactly sure what is causing the increase in cost, but I have my ideas.

I am sorry if what I posted before was confusing. I'm not that good at explaining myself. Of course, this is all academic if the Master of the Five Elements, as is listed in the unit spreadsheet can only get an Elemental pick.

Note that if the random is restricted to an Elemental pick, the cost of the magic path increases.

Are there any problems that people can point out with my math? As I said before, I'm doing this through a rather brute force approach to the probabilities, and since this is involving a lot of arithmetic, I may be making silly errors.

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Very likely. I've seen 1-1-1-1, 2-1-1, 2-2 and 3-1, although I'm not sure I've ever seen an all-elemental or an all-sorcery. So it's either 4 x 1? or 1Elem + 1Sorc + 2 x 1?.

Thank you. This helps...

If you're looking for hidden weaknesses in the Circle Master that would explain his low cost, he hasn't any - at least, none I'm aware of.

All right... because it's shockingly low.

One other question. Can anyone confirm whether or not the Galderman's random picks can be the same? I know that when I've played Mitgard, I've never seen the Galderman get 2 in the same path for his randoms.

The reason that the Circle Mage has such low cost for the paths is because it is a rare site that is hard to find.

You have to take that into account.

Look at Celestial Master's for a cost estimate of what you are doing for Randoms.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
The way I calculated the cost for a 1/1/1/1/1/1 magic path was as follows:

I understand your methodology, but you should realize that it will fail on just about every mage that has only one point of magic. This is especially true for the holy-2 mages with one skill point. The theurg acolyte is a perfect example. He has 1 astral, two holy, and costs 90 gold. Some other examples are the Mictlan priest(BHH-80), the Serpent Acolyte(NHH-80), the Shaman(NS-110), the Master of the way (W?-100) and so on.