Newb Q: Pretender options for Machaka?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Hey, Zen? Didn't you say Growth was crap, and that you always take Death instead, for the points? Is there a specific reason why you've chosen to recommend the exact opposite, in this case?

Probably for the overall 33% boost to gold that those particular scales give you. I wouldn't personally take more than death 1 in a game that I expected to Last for a long time. For Abysia at least, in my experience, death 2 starts to negatively affect you by around turn 60, and death 3 starts to be noticeable by around turn 30.

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Hey, Zen? Didn't you say Growth was crap, and that you always take Death instead, for the points? Is there a specific reason why you've chosen to recommend the exact opposite, in this case?

For someone new, who always hates it when their people die (It's a gamer trait for some reason) I always suggest taking something with heavy scales instead of heavy pretender. And the way the Air4 Virtue works for Machaka they need gold. I normally would never play Growth but for people to learn, they should learn to milk as much out of their nation as they can, then later worry about making uberpretenders or bless effects.

[quantum_mechani]

I like a Daughter of the Land with A3 W2 S7. Covers your magic gaps, gives a decent SC, and a nice extra two gems a turn.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
I like a Daughter of the Land with A3 W2 S7. Covers your magic gaps, gives a decent SC, and a nice extra two gems a turn.

Note the Astral (S) 7 Quantum recommends - not anything lower. Having 7 gives some insurance against Magic Duel (evocation 3) which would otherwise allow a chance of an S1 mage to get lucky and kill your pretender. Adding on a Starshine Skullcap and casting the spells that raise your astral (and other) magic skill levels means that most nations won't be able to take you down without using Communion.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Boron:
may i ask how you cope with the bad pd ?
do you take a watchtower and castle all the area which i probably would do ?

I've never wallpapered castles, but I used to play Machaka a fair amount. One way to boost the horrible PD is to add some of Machaka's very cheap archers to each non-fortified province.

Another thing is to stud your territory with forts, to allow only one non-fortified province between each fort, a la :

oXoX
ooXo
XoXo

Each X being a fortified province, each O non-fortified. My 'diagram' is iffy - forts border one another, but then, most maps don't have too many provinces with 8 neighbors.

Point is, if you build those forts, you can channel the enemies, as they only have so many ways they can go, if they don't want to besiege you. ( It works better with the semi-expensive fortifications that give at least 100 defense, because the walls aren't as easily crushed the same turn as an attack. Extra admin doesn't hurt either.)

You build your temples in the provinces with the forts, obviously. Later game you may need more temples, but Machaka isn't dominion driven unless you have an immortal pretender.

Put a reasonable garrison in each fort, with both a combat combatant and, if you can afford it, a spellcaster. (The question in affording the spellcaster is the loss of research / casting, unless you build a lab in each as well.) The garrisons allow you to move to block the 'channels' you've left between your fortifications, to surround the invader.

One thing that helps to afford the reasonable garrisons with Machaka : Vine Men. Build some Ivy Crowns, thus allowing 3 Vine Men (or Vine Ogres, if your caster is N3) for every 1 nature gem. Upkeep free, and non-routable as long as there is a mage on the field. And of course, forging Thistle Maces helps your N2 mages reach N3, allowing the Vine Ogres which provide much better bang per Nature Gem. (Get to N4, and higher construction, and there's a staff you can forge that gives a bonus of 2 to nature magic, and an additional bonus to each casting of Vine Men / Vine Ogres.)

Nearly ever mage Machaka produces has at least N1, so it's easy to produce the Vines, and again - they don't suffer morale loss, so won't rout, making them great for wearing down most invaders until they run out of fatigue.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:
may i ask how you cope with the bad pd ?
do you take a watchtower and castle all the area which i probably would do ?

One thing that helps to afford the reasonable garrisons with Machaka : Vine Men. Build some Ivy Crowns, thus allowing 3 Vine Men (or Vine Ogres, if your caster is N3) for every 1 nature gem. Upkeep free, and non-routable as long as there is a mage on the field. And of course, forging Thistle Maces helps your N2 mages reach N3, allowing the Vine Ogres which provide much better bang per Nature Gem. (Get to N4, and higher construction, and there's a staff you can forge that gives a bonus of 2 to nature magic, and an additional bonus to each casting of Vine Men / Vine Ogres.)

Nearly ever mage Machaka produces has at least N1, so it's easy to produce the Vines, and again - they don't suffer morale loss, so won't rout, making them great for wearing down most invaders until they run out of fatigue.

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hm the vine men / ogres look like a very good idea to me since they are very cheap + mindless as you said
some items like an ivy crown increase the gain of vine men / ogres and in the description of an ivy king stands that he increases the chances too.
somewhere in the manual or ingame description i further read that summoning in a forest province helps too.
but i remember once i tried to give an ivy king the suggested +nature staff but he had no arms if i remember correctly to use it .

so what is the best combo to get most ivys with one summoner ?
because if you forge all the items you should get something between 6-10 vine men / ogres per summon right ?
normally you get 2 vine men or 1 ogre but the additional vine men / ogres from the items are the same right ?
so in the end you get either x vine men or x-1 vine ogres right ?
thnx for abolishing my confusions according to the vine creatures

[NTJedi]

Almost all of my games were Machaka yet recently doing the other nations more often because their province defense is so terrible. For the really large maps province defense becomes more important.

As far as the topic is concerned I recommend using the pretender which comes with the lions to his aid during battle.