Death Knight Army

Cheezeninja · #1 July 17th, 2004, 12:58 AM

I think the combination of an easy Earth/Blood nation was left out on purpose, because such a combination is extremely powerful en masse. Just rush construction, build some dwarven hammers, mass produce earthstones for cheap, cast forge of ancients, mass produce soul contracts for really cheap, reap the massive benefits...

Pangea is probably your best bet for getting this started early since they have built in bloodhunters, and Pans have a chance of getting both earth and blood.

[ July 16, 2004, 23:59: Message edited by: Cheezeninja ]

Boron · #2 July 17th, 2004, 01:15 AM

perhaps this would be a good idea for a future theme .
EEBB mages .

cause for every other similiar blood summon there are in most cases 2 nations there :

devils : abysia / marignon DF / mictlan
frost fiends : mictlan / jotunheim
cross breeding : pangenea / mictlan

storm demon is though a similiar candidate :
vanheim (standard) can get the 2nd needed blood pick only with 1/8 th possibility on their very expensive vanadrotts.

or they need to empower their vanjarls +1 blood .

but they can't natural cast it .
with pangenea it is similiar for demon knights but there the odds are much worse than for vanheim .

perhaps the designers thought that storm demons and death knights are the "best" demon troops and better than the above listed devils and so on .

vanheim + pangenea have further in common that it is much harder for them to get a blood economy going .
pangeneas pandemoniacs are just very expensive .
vanheims bloodhunters have only blood 1 and are very expensive . the SDR is a must for them.
and a +1 blood item doesn't hurt too .

but vanheim has already plenty of other strenghts like powerful air magic , possible bless strategies ...

a 4th pangenea theme where the pans are replaced through blood 2 earth 2 pans would perhaps be nice to fill the niche

edit : didn't see your posting already when writing this Cheezeninja

sounds very rational why there should be no EEBB nation / theme

[ July 17, 2004, 00:17: Message edited by: Boron ]

Graeme Dice · #3 July 17th, 2004, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boron:
[QB]vanheims bloodhunters have only blood 1 and are very expensive . the SDR is a must for them.
and a +1 blood item doesn't hurt too .

A +1 blood item has an identical effect to a SDR when blood searching. It will take 15 turns for even the cheapest +1 item (brazen vessel forged with a hammer) to pay for itself, which is not a very good use of your blood slaves.

Boron · #4 July 17th, 2004, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Boron:
[QB]vanheims bloodhunters have only blood 1 and are very expensive . the SDR is a must for them.
and a +1 blood item doesn't hurt too .

A +1 blood item has an identical effect to a SDR when blood searching. It will take 15 turns for even the cheapest +1 item (brazen vessel forged with a hammer) to pay for itself, which is not a very good use of your blood slaves.

that's a good thought .
it is a bit better for a blood 1 mage though or ?
because with blood 1 you have 40% chance to find blood , with blood 2 which a vanjarl will have with SDR for blood hunting purposes it is 80% and with 3+ 100% or ?
so it will be something like 10-12 turns but i never thought it that way

with abysia and the like i of course only forge a SDR

[ July 17, 2004, 00:45: Message edited by: Boron ]

Graeme Dice · #5 July 17th, 2004, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boron:
because with blood 1 you have 40% chance to find blood , with blood 2 which a vanjarl will have with SDR for blood hunting purposes it is 80% and with 3+ 100% or?

The chance is 10% + 40%*Blood. A blood 2 mage has a 90% chance, as does a blood 1 mage with a SDR.

Cohen · #6 July 17th, 2004, 02:11 AM

Well I believe Pan should't get Demon Knights ... I don't feel Pan using demons, but more xbreeding as before stated.

About using blood enhancing items for blood hunting, well I use them only when they're useless elsewhere.
I prefer +1 blood slave than +1 research point.
But usually they're assigned to forging or casting.

Boron · #7 July 17th, 2004, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Boron:
because with blood 1 you have 40% chance to find blood , with blood 2 which a vanjarl will have with SDR for blood hunting purposes it is 80% and with 3+ 100% or?

The chance is 10% + 40%*Blood. A blood 2 mage has a 90% chance, as does a blood 1 mage with a SDR.

ah thnx . btw the storm demon isn't such a great idea for vanheim at all or ? because he just adds to their strenghts ( already superpowerful airmages ) but does not cover their weaknesses .
against lighningresistant creatures / sc's storm demons are pretty useless or ?