Gem use question.

[Arryn]

Adding further to Cainehill's reply:

Please note that the example on page 17 of the manual uses Fireball, a L2 Evocation spell that uses NO gems. Hence a L1 caster can use a single gem (his limit as a L1 caster) to boost his casting ability to L2. If Fireball needed any gems whatsoever, the L1 caster could not cast the L2 spell at all (unless via Communion).

A L2 caster could use 2 gems to boost his ability to L4, but only with zero-cost spells such as Fireball. If the L2 caster was casting a spell that normally needs 1 gem, then his limit would be only 1 extra gem (for L3 effect). And, as Cainehill points out, if a spell needed 2 gems, a L2 caster cannot apply any extra gems at all.

[archaeolept]

ah ok, thanks for clearing that up guys

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Actually, the gems required by the spell count against the gems that can be used for raising skill level / reducing fatigue.

The problem I have with this statement is that I know that I've seen both astral 4 and astral 5 mages cast solar brilliance when sent into battle solo. It's a spell that requires 5 gems to cast, which means that it should be impossible for them to cast it. The only way that an astral 4 mage can cast solar brilliance is for him to boost his power to 5 with a single gem, spend the required five gems to cast the spell, the spend another 2 gems to bring the fatigue cost down to 167.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
Actually, the gems required by the spell count against the gems that can be used for raising skill level / reducing fatigue.

The problem I have with this statement is that I know that I've seen both astral 4 and astral 5 mages cast solar brilliance when sent into battle solo. It's a spell that requires 5 gems to cast, which means that it should be impossible for them to cast it. The only way that an astral 4 mage can cast solar brilliance is for him to boost his power to 5 with a single gem, spend the required five gems to cast the spell, the spend another 2 gems to bring the fatigue cost down to 167.

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Sure they didn't cast one of the two spells that would effectively raise their casting level first? (Power of the Spheres or Light of the Northern Star)

Or possibly there's a bug with level 1 mages, if they should be able to use 1 gem in addition to what was required by the spell, since they can't.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Sure they didn't cast one of the two spells that would effectively raise their casting level first? (Power of the Spheres or Light of the Northern Star)

I thought about that, but then how would you explain reducing a 500 fatigue cost down to something workable? The L4 mage needs to be L7-equivalent. The fatigue cost is a problem even for a L5 mage. There's an inconsistency between how some spells appear to be cast by certain mages, and how other spells are or aren't.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Sure they didn't cast one of the two spells that would effectively raise their casting level first? (Power of the Spheres or Light of the Northern Star)

I'm sure of it. One case was with an astrologer who cast solar brilliance, then some other buff spells. In other words, he used a huge number of gems to bring his fatigue down to lower levels. The other case was two separate occasions with astral 4 and 5 starspawn. In all three occasions, the mages had ritual of returning cast on them, and they were all wearing starshine skullcaps. All of these were performed under Version 2.08, if that could be part of the reason for the differences.

Or possibly there's a bug with level 1 mages, if they should be able to use 1 gem in addition to what was required by the spell, since they can't.

I can confirm the Lamashta example. A keeper of the tombs ran towards the enemies (level 9 independents) and cast fire flies in two separate tests. A sauromancer sent on the next turn cast the spell as expected.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Arryn:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
Sure they didn't cast one of the two spells that would effectively raise their casting level first? (Power of the Spheres or Light of the Northern Star)

I thought about that, but then how would you explain reducing a 500 fatigue cost down to something workable? The L4 mage needs to be L7-equivalent. The fatigue cost is a problem even for a L5 mage. There's an inconsistency between how some spells appear to be cast by certain mages, and how other spells are or aren't.

---

Heh. Ain't that the truth!

I'm thinking I need to set up a mini map (like 19 or so provinces), and run all nations through to where they have about everything researched and lots of gems.

That way it'd be easy to save that game, and easily create a variety of mages for any nation via empowerment, in order to test bed various spells. I agree that what Graeme describes (S4 mage being able to cast it via burning 4 gems plus the 5 required) is how _I_ interpretted the manual, and makes more sense to me besides.

But I definately found that D1 mages can't cast Lammashtas, no matter how many gems they carry, while D2 with a single gem cast it in the same circumstance. In fact - Graeme might remember it. An Onyx Amazon Priestess wandering into a huge army of his, and ... not doing much.

It was scripted to cast Summon Lammashtas, had the gems, had a nice big army it was casting against and ... blip! Out comes a skeleton instead.