Lab Secrets

[Ryukenden]

Due to the fact that I've played Total War games A LOT, research seems secondary to me. However, I do try to get a good amount of research done.

I usually aim for a level in construction first, but then my research will vary according to my situation. If I'm going astral, I'll usually aim for stellar focus/arcane nexus/wish (which boosts my pretenders magic capabilities). I rarely use mages in battle (I believe in a large amount of troops, and mages usually have poor Leadership), so I keep them researching. If I can get my hands on a good Earth mage, he/she becomes my official armorer for my veteran/elite commanders.

Basically, I prefer ritual/summoning spells over battlefield spells. However, I find that my tactics change with the more experience I get in Dominions II (I'm still learning many things).

Edit: Erased "Overall Style" section

[ July 25, 2004, 23:05: Message edited by: Ryukenden ]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Boron:

question according to skull mentors :
they increase research by 9 points . do they got a bonus through magic scale 3 as well ?

No - the research items add their value to the researcher. The magic scale also adds to the researcher separately. A research 4 mage with a skull mentor in magic 3 scale gets 4+9+3 = 16.

i myself love magic 3 and so i prefer spectres than using the skull mentors. iirc spectres have 7 rp but with magic 3 10 and i think magic 3 doesn't add rp's to research items so you get 1 more per spectre for the same 10 gold cost .
and i prefer stockpiling my clams on the spectres

is there somewhere a list which are most cost effective researchers ?

Well - those Skull Mentors only cost 7 death gems if you're using a Dwarven Hammer; it's much harder to find a reduction on the cost of summoning spectres.

Also, Skull Mentors tend to be available to most nations long before spectres (Const 4 vice Conj 6). The main thing about spectres is that they give random magic, very important for a nation that doesn't have it.

And most nations have a hard time taking Magic 3 - AE and SG Ermor, and CW Pangaea can do it easily, but few others. Then again - I don't think the spectre is mindless, so it can gain experience and get better at researching.

As far as the list of researchers - there's a web site that will show you the most efficient recruitable researchers for various conditions (drain/magic scale and # of turns). The url is Researchers/GP

[Kel]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Well - those Skull Mentors only cost 7 death gems if you're using a Dwarven Hammer

This can vary from situation to situation, as can everything, but generally speaking, I find that I rarely have a dwarven hammer early in the game, which is when I would use research bonus items, if I was going to use them.

And most nations have a hard time taking Magic 3

I tend to use magic 2 or magic 3 unless I am trying out a specific strategy that requires a lot of points elsewhere. It's not hard at all to get Magic 3 ! For me, personally, most of my nations start with order+3, luck-2, magic+3 before I even start fiddling with the other points.

- Kel

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

And most nations have a hard time taking Magic 3 - AE and SG Ermor, and CW Pangaea can do it easily, but few others. Then again - I don't think the spectre is mindless, so it can gain experience and get better at researching.

Hmm? What game are you talking about Cain? Surely it's not Dom2. Magic 3 is one of the best MP scales in Dom2 in general, right after the Order 3, and even more important than Order for some nations. And taking Magic 3 is no more difficlut than taking one other scale 3. It is just 120 points, no more and no less. And in most situations it well worth it.

Obviosly any nation/theme can afford it, even those with tough requirement settings. Unless of course you determined to get one or two level 9 blesses, or damp all your points in Uber-VQ or something. But that's your choice.


As far as the list of researchers - there's a web site that will show you the most efficient recruitable researchers for various conditions (drain/magic scale and # of turns). The url is Researchers/GP [/QB][/quote]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
And most nations have a hard time taking Magic 3 - AE and SG Ermor, and CW Pangaea can do it easily, but few others. Then again - I don't think the spectre is mindless, so it can gain experience and get better at researching.

Hmm? What game are you talking about Cain? Surely it's not Dom2. Magic 3 is one of the best MP scales in Dom2 in general, right after the Order 3, and even more important than Order for some nations. And taking Magic 3 is no more difficlut than taking one other scale 3. It is just 120 points, no more and no less. And in most situations it well worth it.

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I'm referring to the game where many nations and themes really require high order and sometimes high productivity as well. The game where the Magic scale has diminishing returns. You know - the ones where many nations don't have 40-120 free points from the temperature scale. The one where you got your butt handed to you by Cohen in a tournament...

Given how bad Cohen is, maybe your belief in Magic-3 helps to explain this?

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Kel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
Well - those Skull Mentors only cost 7 death gems if you're using a Dwarven Hammer

This can vary from situation to situation, as can everything, but generally speaking, I find that I rarely have a dwarven hammer early in the game, which is when I would use research bonus items, if I was going to use them.

---

Really? One of the first earth items I try to forge is that dwarven hammer - the sooner you get one, the more benefit you can get out of it.

While the research items ... I'm past turn 40 in one game, and cranking out one to three Skull Mentors a turn, depending on how many researchers I'm adding that turn. Admittedly I've been much better off if I had started doing so earlier, but I'd always had a dim view of the research items before this game.

quote:

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And most nations have a hard time taking Magic 3

I tend to use magic 2 or magic 3 unless I am trying out a specific strategy that requires a lot of points elsewhere. It's not hard at all to get Magic 3 ! For me, personally, most of my nations start with order+3, luck-2, magic+3 before I even start fiddling with the other points.

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I like Magic 1 myself, and hate taking the high order, high Misfortune - like the old VQs, it just seems cheesy, even if it is a no-brainer with the Order/Luck scales being tied the screwed up way they are.

And I also tend to spend a lot of points on dominion (but then doesn't everyone) and usually 60-100 on a castle. (The 60 pointer is kind of my default, unless I'm trying something experimental, or am short / surplus points at the end.)

Oh, and almost always one additional magic path on a pretender, even if it hurts, and 80 points for free beer.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Stormbinder:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
And most nations have a hard time taking Magic 3 - AE and SG Ermor, and CW Pangaea can do it easily, but few others. Then again - I don't think the spectre is mindless, so it can gain experience and get better at researching.

Hmm? What game are you talking about Cain? Surely it's not Dom2. Magic 3 is one of the best MP scales in Dom2 in general, right after the Order 3, and even more important than Order for some nations. And taking Magic 3 is no more difficlut than taking one other scale 3. It is just 120 points, no more and no less. And in most situations it well worth it.

---

I'm referring to the game where many nations and themes really require high order and sometimes high productivity as well. The game where the Magic scale has diminishing returns. You know - the ones where many nations don't have 40-120 free points from the temperature scale. The one where you got your butt handed to you by Cohen in a tournament...

Given how bad Cohen is, maybe your belief in Magic-3 helps to explain this?

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LOL. You don't need free point from temperature scales to get magic 3 Cain. Like I said, it's just 120 points. As for your weak attempt to flame - FYI I haven't lost a single game during Last 3 monthes or so, other than that 6AM tournament blitz that I was stupid enough to participate in. On the opposite, I have won all games that I've particiapted in this time period, and in the wining positions for those that are still being played. I strongly doubt you can say so about yourself. And yes, I take Magic 3 in every 2 out of 3 games in average I would say, depending what race/settings I am playing.


Anyway, the point is that magic is a great scale to take, since reseach is bread and butter of Dominions, no matter what you think about it. It is especially so for for medium and long games, which are often won and lost by reseach. I would say in general it is number two scale after the Order, although for some nations/themes with great national reseachers it is less importent, than for others.

[ July 26, 2004, 04:38: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]