pan cw : formulas for freespawns/reanimations. quite finished . with guide too

[Boron]

Originally posted by odd_enuf:
when i did my own testing with cw reanimations i played with dominion 1 with independs 0, i send a bunch of ladies, centair, and lords out to provinces with neutral domains, and in that situation the ladies and the lords reanimated the same # of carion beasts.

odd_enuf

that's the key . in neutral provinces .
only when you reach 100% according to the formula you get 1 reanimation / unholy level per turn guaranted .
in neutral territory or enemy dominion you seem to just summon random numbers .
so summon in your high dominion capitol for max output .

[Boron]

Originally posted by Sindai:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:
my primitive chart got autoformatted now it looks crappy

The code tags (which work exactly like the quote tags) keep the parsing software from pulling out extra spaces.

code:

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Boop                             Beep

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thnx

fixed it . now it looks 10 times better

[ July 30, 2004, 22:57: Message edited by: Boron ]

[PvK]

Note that if you do take higher magic scales, the Ladies become more economical researchers. They also have more slots for research-boosting items.

PvK

[Boron]

Originally posted by PvK:
Note that if you do take higher magic scales, the Ladies become more economical researchers. They also have more slots for research-boosting items.

PvK

thnx pvk .
i already covered that . most likely you just have overread it

Originally posted by Boron:
so while the carrion ladies have give the same roi on research + reanimation ( negligible better : 3 reanimation / 6 research for 24 nature gems compared to 25 for the carrion lord ) their physical fragility makes them worthless compared to the carrion lords.

you are right with research items they are better researchers but their physical fragility makes them still very vulnerable to seeking arrow and the like . so there overall RoI is still much lower then that of the carrion lord .

furthermore getting the research items as pan cw is not easy :
the skull mentor is a good choice with +9 research for 10 death gems .
the Panic Apostates can massproduce them without empowerment .
but deathgems are rare . they could be spent on banelords , wraith swords and the like too .

the owl quill gives you +3 research for 5 air gems . pan cw lacks though a natural air forger .
your harpy hero has A2 and perhaps your pretender .
but again , i think a staff of storms or other air items are more needed investments i think .

finally the lightness lantern : +6 research for 5 fire gems .
this one is a good research item for pan cw .
in my personal pan cw built i though completely lack fire magic .
furthermore pangenea has to fight cash shortages . fire gems help much against that weakness of pan cw .

but your lightness lanterns are a very good option for pan cw i agree
in sp you have problems to massproduce them yourselves but you neither really need them there too . Ai is as bad against pan cw as against ermor .

in mp if you get skull mentors or lightness lanterns through trade then this is great of course

so i agree with you that they are good
only small part where i differ :
if you get them then you should still put them on your carrion lords .
with 15 hp a carrion lady might get killed by a seeking arrow or fires from afar or an early game assasin .
i think you can say a carrion lady has something like 30-50% probability to survive any of the 3 mentioned attacks early - midgame while a carrion lord has about 90-95% probability to survive that .

you have good points but carrion ladies are still not worth being considered as alternative for carrion lords because of their fragility

edit :

Originally posted by PvK: They also have more slots for research-boosting items

according to unitattributes.xls both have 2 misc slots . total amount of slots is the same too .

edit 2 :
my ingame check confirmed that

[ July 31, 2004, 18:06: Message edited by: Boron ]

[djtool]

if you're writing up a guide to CW I'd like to suggest that you throw that medusa in that pot of good gods to take. I've used her a number of times for CW and she's pretty tough.

Also for me I usually reasearch alt 6 then cont 4/ench 5 in either order. That's for mass protect (car lords are rdy to cast it), pale riders and the skull staff to cast them. I like the pale riders vs. some of the conjuration bits because I don't need a ton of gems to get them going (meaning constructing SC's), you get alot and they fall right in line with any kind of mad rush you want to put on the rear units (since your horsey's and doggies are so fast).

[ July 31, 2004, 18:35: Message edited by: djtool ]

[Boron]

Originally posted by djtool:
if you're writing up a guide to CW I'd like to suggest that you throw that medusa in that pot of good gods to take. I've used her a number of times for CW and she's pretty tough.

Also for me I usually reasearch alt 6 then cont 4/ench 5 in either order. That's for mass protect (car lords are rdy to cast it), pale riders and the skull staff to cast them. I like the pale riders vs. some of the conjuration bits because I don't need a ton of gems to get them going (meaning constructing SC's), you get alot and they fall right in line with any kind of mad rush you want to put on the rear units (since your horsey's and doggies are so fast).

nice suggestions . if you want you can just write them as variation .
i myself are just so content with my vq for pan cw that i have no expierience with a medusa .
the built in aegis effect is surely very cool . i just love the immortality of the vq .
your medusa is surely a very good sc too .
now i am curious :
when can she start indep conquering with indy settings of 7-9 ?
because of pangeneas early cash shortage and few freespawns i think you need to expand via sc pretender earlygame and a rainbow is a bad choice for pan cw while it can be a very good one for ermor .

[Cainehill]

Another thing in favor of having some carrion cuties - carrion lords aren't very cost effective for shuttling the roadkill from province to province.

Now, arguably mound kings or revenants are more cost efficient than carrion ladies, especially as they come from another pot of money, so to speak - death gems vice nature. However, the carrion lady can be used to round up 20-40 auto-spawned carrions, take them to a province, build a temple and then sit there reanimating while guarding the temple.

Sure, if you could afford it you'd want to build a fortress to protect your temples - but CW wants a lot of temples, generally a lot more temples than it can afford to build fortresses on top of.

Also - the carrion lady should survive a seeking arrow with close to a 90% chance of survival; with good carrion critters set as bodyguards, has a good chance of surviving most assassins, but is rather a bit vulnerable to fires from afar.