MP Game - New Mosehansen Game - hard_slog

[The Panther]

Yeah, one should keep their mouth closed and have people suspect you as a fool instead of opening it and proving it like I did.

Obviously, I am a rank newbie. But what I actually said is that no pretender OUGHT to be able to kill level 5s and above striaght out of the box. The VQ is just one of many such problems against this obviously wistful notion.

When I first started playing SP in this game, one of the best features I found was that you had to get lots of varied commanders and troops to do anything useful. It was as far removed from Heroes of Might and Magic as it could be. The HMM series was all about creating the ultimate power hero. Dominions was a pleasant change from that.

But then I get on line and discover that Dom2 is all about getting the ultimate SC. The fact that ANY super commander can take the highest level of indy all alone without breaking a sweat is simply a sign of this problem. Level 20 indys? Level 30? Level 100??? How high would it need to go to stop this from happening?

I should talk, for my god is actually #1 in the HOF. But I am too ignorant and/or chicken to send him in alone. So I have been losing troops taking the powerful indys. And will continue to do so, for I am surrounded by knights and heavy calvary and dark vines other such toughies.

I suspect the truth of the matter is that I do not know all that much about the deep secrets in this game. And it obviously has a steep learning curve, as do ALL complicated games.

But it sure is fun and addicting! The fact that I have about a 0.01% chance of winning this game does not bother me in the slightest. It will be an enjoyable experience and I will go down fighting to the bitter end.

[Truper]

Keep in mind that we are talking pretender *gods* here. So the idea that they ought not to be able to smack down a bunch of poor joes with swords and spears just doesn't fly.

And on the subject of the VQ, yeah, she works great, but these days she's expensive. You've really got to accept some compromises in terms of scales, castle and dominion strength in order to build a real vq monster. As it should be.

[Sheap]

Panther:

I think you should take heart. While gods and other supercombatants are extremely good at busting independents, the game isn't really about fighting the independents. Once you get later in the game and start fighting the other players, who have powerful summons and/or magic in battle, the lone supercombatant stops working quite so well. You still use them, obviously, but only as a component of your overall strategy.

Cainehill:

Removing recuperation from immortality would just nerf all the other immortals. But since the VQ has built in regeneration it would hardly hurt her at all.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Sheap:
Panther:

I think you should take heart. While gods and other supercombatants are extremely good at busting independents, the game isn't really about fighting the independents. Once you get later in the game and start fighting the other players, who have powerful summons and/or magic in battle, the lone supercombatant stops working quite so well. You still use them, obviously, but only as a component of your overall strategy.

Cainehill:

Removing recuperation from immortality would just nerf all the other immortals. But since the VQ has built in regeneration it would hardly hurt her at all.

yep totally true .
sc pretenders excel at indy killing but later in the game they are only a part of your strat .
dominions is very different from heros of might and magic because you have so many options .
and in homm a hero only dies when all his troops are wiped out while a pretender god can be killed or get afflictions

indies 9 are tough i had to fight 90 barbarians Last turn they got through my mistform + mirror image the suckers hehe *G
i had 10 hp left then they routed so i almost lost my pretender against them but was lucky

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Sheap:
Removing recuperation from immortality would just nerf all the other immortals. But since the VQ has built in regeneration it would hardly hurt her at all.

Removing, or rather modifying, the recuperation from immortality would put some limitations on the others, yes. But still - what I proposed is that immortals heal all wounds when coming back from the dead via immortality. The immortal simply needs to die to heal those wounds.

Also - all the _OTHER_ pretenders live without recuperation (with the exceptions of the bulls, carrion dragon, etc). The immortals can surely live without it also.

And I disagree about the VQ hardly being effected because of her regeneration - she has tiny HPs, _and_ is in melee quite often, meaning a lot of opportunity for wounds. Many if not all of the other immortals tend to be artillery, not getting hit that often as a result, so not getting as many opportunities for wounds.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by The Panther:
Obviously, I am a rank newbie. But what I actually said is that no pretender OUGHT to be able to kill level 5s and above striaght out of the box. The VQ is just one of many such problems against this obviously wistful notion.

You could always go down Cohen's path and insist on playing games with very difficult magic research, limitting pretender choices to human or immobile pretenders, and other complicated rules intended to make the game play the way you want it to, instead of the way the game designers designed it to be played.

But, bad news : even human pretenders, and immobiles, can take independent provinces all by their lonesome before turn 20. The immobile can teleport in and clean house.

The human can either hurl enough magical artillery to devastate medium sized armies, or have enough death magic to simply summon skeletons upon skeletons upon skeletons until the enemy is wiped out.

And not infrequently, the immobile or human pretender dies trying to do so.

*shrug* Instead of crying out to nerf the VQ, or to nerf all SC pretenders, try figuring out how to use your own pretender and national troops to their fullest.

I've got the second highest number of provinces in this game - and my pretender only this Last turn budged from the capital, so it obviously wasn't my pretender.

You can use scales to your advantage - either giving your armies a boost, or enabling a mighty pretender, or facilitating potent blessings. You can use even puny mercenaries to allow your national armies to take provinces they would otherwise suffer great losses attacking, or you can come up with clever items to put on your national commanders that let them tip the balance of battle in their favor.

Or, you can always design and implement a game that does as you wish. But frankly, a game without the mighty magics and potent godlings probably wouldn't appeal to nearly as wide an audience.

Lastly : Write to Illwinter and ask them to put in some switches that put limits on the game - limitting research to level 2, 3, 4, etc, that force all people to use a human or an immobile pretender, etc. Fairly simple for them to do, albeit not very much fun either, but you can always ask.

[Boron]

**** why do i have so low dominion everywhere ?
grmml