So how 'bout those Mets?

[Maltrease]

I think it was probably closed to soon. I understand people don't want a flame war, but this is about as serious as you can get concerning a multiplayer video game. In a tournament game, no less.

I think a lot of people had things they would like to say. I had written up a message to post, only to discover the thread was locked while I was writing it.

[archaeolept]

if i were to speculate, it was closed because storm changed the title to something akin to "nyah nyah nyah norfleet's a dirty cheater", when the thread only existed on zen's suffrance, due to likely flaming and insults.

malt, if you have something thought out, pls post it here. as long as people remain civil things should be fine, i think.

[Maltrease]

Well this is the message I was set to post:

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It is a real shame. Cheating is such a hollow victory, it doesn't even seem worth doing.

If you count how many hours you spend on a typical game (days of your life) it is extemely hurtful to have that time wasted by someone who is not playing fairly.

A lot people have very mixed feeling about Norfleet, but in general I think many people (including myself) respected him for his knowledge and skill in winning his games.

But now who knows how many other games he never would have won unless he he gave himself a slight (undetectable) advantage. Seriously, if he would have only cheated 1/10 as much in this game it would have gone unnoticed, but still would have been a tremendous advantage.

I am just very thankful that most of the community here would never dream of cheating in this way. I mean we are not 14 year old kids screaming obcenities, dissing each other mothers, and fragging each other in some 3D shooting game.

It has amazed me how technically savy, proffesional, friendly, intelligent, and open the typical Dominions player is. I hope our community can stay this way.

[Stormbinder]

Well this is the message I was set to post:

---------------------------------------------------

It is a real shame. Cheating is such a hollow victory, it doesn't even seem worth doing.

If you count how many hours you spend on a typical game (days of your life) it is extemely hurtful to have that time wasted by someone who is not playing fairly.

A lot people have very mixed feeling about Norfleet, but in general I think many people (including myself) respected him for his knowledge and skill in winning his games.

But now who knows how many other games he never would have won unless he he gave himself a slight (undetectable) advantage. Seriously, if he would have only cheated 1/10 as much in this game it would have gone unnoticed, but still would have been a tremendous advantage.

I am just very thankful that most of the community here would never dream of cheating in this way. I mean we are not 14 year old kids screaming obcenities, dissing each other mothers, and fragging each other in some 3D shooting game.

It has amazed me how technically savy, proffesional, friendly, intelligent, and open the typical Dominions player is. I hope our community can stay this way.

Very good post Maltrease.

I also can't possibly understand what kind of pleasure the person can get from such hollow victories? Especially considering such long hours(days) all of us invest in typical MP Dom2 game.

I also have a strong hope that our fellow players community will be better from now on, with this matter brought to the closure. I know I've participated in a lot of flamewars directed at Norfleet myself, together with other players. You know, now that I think about it, I can not think of any good explanation why I would feel such a strong negative emotions toward that person. Something about him ruining my game and his personality in general annoyed me to no end. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] I went overboard several times in the past because of it, unable to fully control my feelings.

It's very strange, considering that I am in RL mature and adult person and should know better that to have such feeling toward some anonymous person on the internet over a computer game. Maybe part of the reason is that, as Mal said, we are investing so much of our time into this game, that it become very personal. I don't know...

Anyway, I am glad to see this Norfleet's saga finally finished, in such clear and satisfactory conclusion. I am also quite positive that none of us, Dom2 players, would think of trying to follow his footsteps. The community in general is nice, mature and intelligent. And Norfleet was...well, he was Norfleet.

Enough said.

Regards,
Stormbinder

[Zapmeister]

And Norfleet was...well, he was Norfleet.

My worry is that he's still here. Not called Norfleet.

[Demosthenes]

The thing that really stuns me is the massive level of disrespect heaped on the other players when someone pulls this crap. It says "Your time and effort mean nothing to me".

I guess that would be the logical extension of the Norfleet philosophy as has been expounded in so many other threads. Most notably in my mind, the "Sabre Cherry is NOT dead" thread from two months ago in which I believe I said that Norfleet's attitude was the "enemy of functional society."

But to be honest I respected the guy for his unwavering bull****. I really was expecting him to be able to prove his case and show us all a new amazing strategy for mass gem collection by Turn 20. I guess I should have learned from the style of diatribe in the whole GG fiasco. If one compares the retorts from that whole scandal, Norfleet and his alter-ego's tones at that time were amazingly similar to this week's.

I have to say I learned a lesson from this, again. Again meaning I guess I should have learned this one already... Don't trust anyone. Hmmm....

But wasn't that Norfleet's whole ethos?

The lesson is that people who think that no-one can be trusted, cannot themselves be trusted. One believes that society is a reflection of whatever world-view they have and they go out and manifest that reality upon others. Most people are reasonably good and consciencious. Be careful of anyone who tells you otherwise.

[Gandalf Parker]

On the one hand Norfleet had the most deleted Posts, and generated the most deleted Posts, of anyone else in this forum. From his early standings on the subject of software cracking to his latest one of turn-file cracking.

HOWEVER he also generated more conversations, debates, discussions, polls, than anyone else (I believe ThinkTank might be second). When I was an old DnD game master I would survive such encounters by thinking "Well I am blessed for meeting such a unique person. What an interesting NPC he will make." The personality description on my NPC's were often just a name of someone I had once known which no one else seemed to get along with but I was always smiling thinking what a great NPC they would be.

What can I say? Im diplomatic.

[Stormbinder]

I guess I should have learned from the style of diatribe in the whole GG fiasco. If one compares the retorts from that whole scandal, Norfleet and his alter-ego's tones at that time were amazingly similar to this week's.

Hold on. Was you in my "Song of Ice and Fire" game on GG that Norfleet have ruined, Demosthenes? If so, what was your nick there, on GG Boards?

Or did you just read our game thread and compared that alter ego with Norfleet, whom you know from shrapnels Boards?

But in any case, you are absolutely correct, they were very similar, depite their efforts. So I am not too concerned about Norfleet appearing under some other name anytime soon. If he will, we would likely to discover it pretty fast. If everything else fails, watch for some newbie who would write 2500 Posts in few months...

I have to say I learned a lesson from this, again. Again meaning I guess I should have learned this one already... Don't trust anyone. Hmmm....

But wasn't that Norfleet's whole ethos?

The lesson is that people who think that no-one can be trusted, cannot themselves be trusted. One believes that society is a reflection of whatever world-view they have and they go out and manifest that reality upon others. Most people are reasonably good and consciencious. Be careful of anyone who tells you otherwise.

Indeed. Though my life I have came to the personal conclusion, that it is well worth to keep generaly good opinion about people around you, unitl they have proven otherwise. Sure, you'll certanly run in some jerk now and then, and may suffer as a result. But it is better than to become very suspisious toward all people, not trusting anyone and puting all kind of psyhological heavy defenses around you and shooting at everyone who dares come close...

At least this is my opinion on this matter, and it have been working quite well for me.

I would have liked to post the Last post, but in order to stop it before the replies went like wildfire, I closed the post.

If you feel this is unfair to the community then I am the one to blame.

A flame war, even if warranted (the flaming portion) is not something I would like to promote within the forum and have very actively attempting to avoid.

The point at which the thread name was changed, and the tone taken as obviously deragatory I closed it in the hope that the personal flames would not be kindled to childish levels. (Since Norfleet said he was leaving at least, that persona)

This does not mean I agree or disagree with either side of the coin (I am actually vehemenantly opposed to cheating in any form) but I don't want to turn it into a cruxification.

If you would like to talk about how cheating is possible, explainations, rational discussion about the act and not specifically flaming Norfleet for doing it (We all know it is wrong, underhanded, coincidentally timed and on my part, unexpected) or the reasoning behind it I am fine with such.

But as Norfleet has/is been a subject of repeated personal attacks I had no desire for things to spiral out of control while I had business to do and couldn't watch the forum like a hawk for a few hours.

Thank you for your willing or unwilling cooperation on this matter.

JB

[PashaDawg]

I was one of those Newbies in the game. It was one of my first MP games. Until things got out of hand, there was a great deal of excitement. The legions of death were HUGE and the rest of us were banding together to defeat the evil fetid empire. I came away learning to pick your fellow players carefully (even though I don’t know many of you yet). Also, Storm was very free with good advice in long emails that I have saved for the official archive. I expect that they will be coming out in his forthcoming strategy guide (hee hee), and I won’t do anything at this point to violate his future copyright, etc., etc. Anyway, it was fun while it Lasted, and now I am free for a new game! (Newbie lamb for slaughter & looking to sharpen my claws… any takers?)