So how 'bout those Mets?

[Cheezeninja]

Well. Well indeed.
I've been gone for the Last few days and i come back and we have a huge rigamahoopshamwamdingle. Of course i can't resist the urge to add my two cents, although i'll try my best to remain ...well... i suppose i'll try to remain honest to myself.

On Norfleets cheating:
Between Norfleets early defensive bs, the factual numbers, and Norfleets hasty exit, the case seems pretty clear at this point. Norfleet was cheating. Obviously its not the end of the world, and while its important to find out how he did it so it could be fixed, i dont think it necessarily follows that he should be Banned forever. I liked Norfleet. Despite his arrogance he could be quite funny, and helpful as well, and he would obviously know more about fixing these cheats/glitches than most others. While most games and forums might ban a player for his first infraction, i'd think that most people would agree that both this game and this forum are like no other. I could definetly see conditional parole for Norfleet were he to help fix whatever glitch or weakness he is exploiting. Obviously many people here would no longer want him in their games, and its equally obvious many people are going to be watching their games like a hawk in an effort to prevent any future cheating.

On the subject of Stormbinder:
Yes, you were right, we all know it, even if some of us refuse to admit it. Norfleet cheated, and you proved it and got one up on him. You came off very unctous and lowball doing it though. Now im not trying to insult you, though i understand how it could be taken as such... but you could have gone about this in an entirely different way. I could practically hear the snickers you must have been holding back in both your original post and your post with the actual numbers, you were OBVIOUSLY very happy to be destroying Norfleet on this forum, and that bothered me nearly as much as Norfleets cheating. In the end the cold hard truth is that you did this community a great service in exposing a cheater who was willing to exploit the game and others so he could lord it over us all, and i thank you for it.... But dont expect me to have to like you for it.

On the subject of the powers that be:
I have on occasion been given to think that sometimes certain Moderators come off as arrogant and dissmisive to those that havn't been around as long as they have, but on the whole i find all the seniority around here to be helpful, polite, and fairly open minded about any issues that come up. I can see why they locked the original post about the cheating, but im not sure i agree with it... Locking a corpse in a closet just means its going to stink that much more when it finally does come out in the open, and with an issue that is as serious as this and strikes so deeply as this issue does.... some negativity and displeasure is bound to be voiced. And i dont believe that should be a problem. It will be a sad state of affairs when we are no longer allowed to vocally make our displeasure known about something... attempting to lock down threads about an issue as important to MP games as cheating is just going to start ugly talk of censorship on top of the whole cheating issue. All in all, kudo's to you for paying attention and lavishing your time on this wonderful game.

On the subject of the powers that be:
I have on occasion been given to think that sometimes certain Moderators come off as arrogant and dissmisive to those that havn't been around as long as they have, but on the whole i find all the seniority around here to be helpful, polite, and fairly open minded about any issues that come up. I can see why they locked the original post about the cheating, but im not sure i agree with it... Locking a corpse in a closet just means its going to stink that much more when it finally does come out in the open, and with an issue that is as serious as this and strikes so deeply as this issue does.... some negativity and displeasure is bound to be voiced. And i dont believe that should be a problem. It will be a sad state of affairs when we are no longer allowed to vocally make our displeasure known about something... attempting to lock down threads about an issue as important to MP games as cheating is just going to start ugly talk of censorship on top of the whole cheating issue. All in all, kudo's to you for paying attention and lavishing your time on this wonderful game.

I knew exactly what was going to happen. At the point of the topic change it no longer was about cheating, but about Stormbinder feeling he could without recourse say whatever he'd like.

Now as I said before, talking about the cheating, or how you think it's wrong. Turning an entire thread into a huge flamefest that must be deleted after it's run it's course so that newbies don't feel the official forum and posters drag the community through the dirt as often as possible is not my favored method of moderation.

Storm was only allowed to keep that post up as long as it maintained some form of dignity, and it did not when he broke his word to me, so it was closed. This thread has been kept relatively free of such things so it is in no danger of any sort of action while allowing people to speak their feelings on the subject without resorting to such low behavior. That being said, I expected it to turn in such a diretion knowing what we know about the animosity between Stormbinder/Norfleet and their own unique personality. Which is exactly why my first post in this thread is worded and stated in such a way as to keep things cordial.

Either way, you are encouraged to have your own opinion of the 'powers that be' as far as this forum. I won't let any other moderator take the blame of the strictures I have taken while I have been here relatively alone.

[Norfleet]

On Norfleets cheating:
Between Norfleets early defensive bs, the factual numbers, and Norfleets hasty exit, the case seems pretty clear at this point.

My exit hasn't been THAT hasty. I'm still around to offload of all of my prior responsibilities before I depart prior to Monday, as I am leaving the country on business I had been planning for some time, but had been putting off. Now I don't have a reason for it, so I booked the ticket yesterday. As for "Defensive Early BS", yes, I admit it, I lied. The actual truth was not something that can be believed in the climate, circumstances, and resultant brouhaha, so like I said, I won't waste my time looking like I'm trying to come up with an excuse, which would not have convinced enough people anyway. I've shared it with only a small handful of people I considered to be friends, and requested that they not share this for their own sake, so as not to come off as an apologist and damage their own reputations further. I won't ask anyone to take sides. I'll just take my lumps and leave, as I was really looking for a way out for at least a month now, as Zen can testify to. Ultimately, I'm as fed up by this as you all are, and as people have graciously offered to take the now onerous and distasteful chores off my hands, I can wash them of this entire affair. Good bye, and good riddance.

[Stormbinder]

My exit hasn't been THAT hasty. I'm still around to offload of all of my prior responsibilities before I depart prior to Monday, as I am leaving the country on business I had been planning for some time, but had been putting off. Now I don't have a reason for it, so I booked the ticket yesterday. As for "Defensive Early BS", yes, I admit it, I lied. The actual truth was not something that can be believed in the climate, circumstances, and resultant brouhaha, so like I said, I won't waste my time looking like I'm trying to come up with an excuse, which would not have convinced enough people anyway. I've shared it with only a small handful of people I considered to be friends, and requested that they not share this for their own sake, so as not to come off as an apologist and damage their own reputations further. I won't ask anyone to take sides. I'll just take my lumps and leave, as I was really looking for a way out for at least a month now, as Zen can testify to. Ultimately, I'm as fed up by this as you all are, and as people have graciously offered to take the now onerous and distasteful chores off my hands, I can wash them of this entire affair. Good bye, and good riddance.

If you cut though norf's vague bs, it sounds to me that Norfeet is hinting, that he has shared the secret of his cheats with few of his "trusted friends", and ask them not to tell it to anybody else. Perhaps he thinks that this would make a nice parting gift from him to the Dom2 community, as a payback for exposing his cheats and forcing him to quit.

I have no idea if it is turth or not, and obviously Norf can very well be lieing about it just as he lied about other things. He might as well keep his cheats to himself and use them under another alies of his in his future Dom2 games, that he will keep playing. Or he might just lie about his "parting gift" to his friends, to make us all suspicios toward each other, and poison atmosphere in Dom2 community some more. *Shrug* It is impossible to determine.

Be it as it may, the scenario that he is describing was always a possibility, of course. More reasons to find and quickly fix whatever loophole he was using to hack Dom2 files. Personally I trust Illwinter and I believe they will find and close whatever security hole he had been using.

Regards,
Stormbinder

[Demosthenes]

... it sounds to me that Norfeet is hinting, that he has shared the secret of his cheats with few of his "trusted friends", and ask them not to tell it to anybody else. Perhaps he thinks that this would make a nice parting gift from him to the Dom2 community, as a payback for exposing his cheats and forcing him to quit.

Put... the ball... down!

You were the Last person who should have responded to that.

Know when to quit man.

[Stormbinder]

Put... the ball... down!

You were the Last person who should have responded to that.

Know when to quit man.

What are you talking about Demosthenes? If you believe that norfleet have cheated and I think you have said it yourself in your earlier Posts (and which is now confirmed by developers), than how else can you possibly read his post? I suggest you reread his post again and think about it for a minute.

And if it is so, than why should I not be allowed to point that out and need to wait for somebody else to say it??? Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense.

[Demosthenes]

Look man evyryone knows he cheated. It's not debateable. He admits it. You succeeded.

He's not expressing ill will toward the community. There's no conspiracy.

Let it go.

[Zapmeister]

He's not expressing ill will toward the community. There's no conspiracy.

Let it go.

Try as I might, I just couldn't let that go.
"Goodbye and good riddance" is ill will in any language.

[Stormbinder]

Look man evyryone knows he cheated. It's not debateable. He admits it. You succeeded.

He's not expressing ill will toward the community. There's no conspiracy.

So you are saying his post about his "trusted friends" was pure bull****? As I said myself, it is always a possibility. It may be even likely. But it is also quite possible than it was not. How can you possibly be so sure?

Besides his post did not sound as if he has "no ill will toward community", as you put it. On the opposite, parts like "I'll just take my lumps and leave", "Good bye, and good riddance" and others sound as if he is bitter. As I suggested, please reread his post and think about it before continuing to argue.

Neither you, me, or anybody else have any way of knowing if it is true or not. It may very well be pure bullsit on his part. But I don't think that we should hide our heads in the sand, and hope for the best.

And please, stop saying "let it go" for god's sake. I already did. At this point I could not care less about Norfleet, he is busted and gone. My only concern is the security of the game, as I made clear in this post and in my other Posts. So naturally when Norf reappers and tell us that he have shared his "secret" with few of his "trusted friends", and tells them not to tell it to anybody else, while saying "Good riddance" to Dom2 community, it does not sound very comfortable, don't you agree?

Cheezeninja wrote:

Well. Well indeed.
I've been gone for the Last few days and i come back and we have a huge rigamahoopshamwamdingle. Of course i can't resist the urge to add my two cents, although i'll try my best to remain ...well... i suppose i'll try to remain honest to myself.

On Norfleets cheating:
Between Norfleets early defensive bs, the factual numbers, and Norfleets hasty exit, the case seems pretty clear at this point. Norfleet was cheating. Obviously its not the end of the world, and while its important to find out how he did it so it could be fixed, i dont think it necessarily follows that he should be Banned forever. I liked Norfleet. Despite his arrogance he could be quite funny, and helpful as well, and he would obviously know more about fixing these cheats/glitches than most others. While most games and forums might ban a player for his first infraction, i'd think that most people would agree that both this game and this forum are like no other. I could definetly see conditional parole for Norfleet were he to help fix whatever glitch or weakness he is exploiting. Obviously many people here would no longer want him in their games, and its equally obvious many people are going to be watching their games like a hawk in an effort to prevent any future cheating.

On the subject of Stormbinder:
Yes, you were right, we all know it, even if some of us refuse to admit it. Norfleet cheated, and you proved it and got one up on him. You came off very unctous and lowball doing it though. Now im not trying to insult you, though i understand how it could be taken as such... but you could have gone about this in an entirely different way. I could practically hear the snickers you must have been holding back in both your original post and your post with the actual numbers, you were OBVIOUSLY very happy to be destroying Norfleet on this forum, and that bothered me nearly as much as Norfleets cheating. In the end the cold hard truth is that you did this community a great service in exposing a cheater who was willing to exploit the game and others so he could lord it over us all, and i thank you for it.... But dont expect me to have to like you for it.

On the subject of the powers that be:
I have on occasion been given to think that sometimes certain Moderators come off as arrogant and dissmisive to those that havn't been around as long as they have, but on the whole i find all the seniority around here to be helpful, polite, and fairly open minded about any issues that come up. I can see why they locked the original post about the cheating, but im not sure i agree with it... Locking a corpse in a closet just means its going to stink that much more when it finally does come out in the open, and with an issue that is as serious as this and strikes so deeply as this issue does.... some negativity and displeasure is bound to be voiced. And i dont believe that should be a problem. It will be a sad state of affairs when we are no longer allowed to vocally make our displeasure known about something... attempting to lock down threads about an issue as important to MP games as cheating is just going to start ugly talk of censorship on top of the whole cheating issue. All in all, kudo's to you for paying attention and lavishing your time on this wonderful game.

I've been following this story with morbid interest, but haven't posted because I've been unable to articulate exactly how I feel about all this. I agree with everything Cheeze wrote, except the "arrogant" bit. I think Zen has made the right decisions in a difficult situation, and I thank him for the effort he's put in to the forum. Not sure what's with the drug-crazed stream of consciousness stuff a couple of Posts ago though. Is the strain finally telling?