SE5 - Strategies

[Paul1980au]

how would you work with a fog of war option in combat - you would have to factor in cloaking levels, scanners, computer tech levels, defensive bonuses - movement ability - other special tech.

It sounds interesting but perhaps fog of war is better kept to the actual empire level part of the game - the overhead manangement part.

[Raging Deadstar]

I think all these stratergy suggestions are great and all but I think we really need to keep things simple with the option of customisation. We might be "veterans" of the Space Empires but new players probably don't want to be swamped in options.

Also A better Combat Simulator to test them out would be a start.

[FLX]

That's true, i miss a damages report at the combat simulator. Something like the log's combat report would be much more usefull than just knowing the units you have lost

[dogscoff]

I would dearly love to see the retrerat option brought back, but the SEIII model would need some improvement:

Make it so that you can only retreat if either:
1) You move faster than all of the enemy warships. You should always be able to run away if you are faster.

Agreed, with a few modifications:
You can only retreat if you are faster than any enemy warships AND you are not in any enemy firing range AND you are at the edge of the map/not hemmed in by enemy ships. This Last clause might be hard to code, so instead of having a specific "retreat" button which may or may not be available at any given time, I have another suggestion- a "run like hell" button:

2) You mill about at the edge of the map for 10 turns without being fired at.

A lot of the current complaints about combat (ships getting stuck in corners etc) could be solved simply by making the combat arena much much bigger. In fact, a kind of de-facto retreat option could be supplied by simply making the combat map so big that any ship fast enough to outrun enemy pursuers has the opportunity to do just that. The map would have to be at least twice as big as the fastest conceivable ship could possibly travel in the given amount of combat turns, added to twice the range of the longest-range weapon. Plus one. Better yet, make the size of the combat map moddable, and that way we can mod our own retreat options in and out as we see fit. in the event of such a retreat the two forces would remain in the same sector after combat, but as long as the game is tweaked so that combat isn't automatically triggered again and again, this shouldn't cause a problem.

However my biggest gripe with the retreat option was retreating through warp points- in SEIII you used to be able to go into combat at a warp point, then retreat immediately, before the enemy's ships and bases can fire on you. Next turn, you just move freely through the warp point, no matter how heavily fortified it may be. You can pull a similar trick in se4 if the enemy's forces are only static ones, by simply hanging around beyond the range of their guns until combat is over.
Given the fact that SE4 is completely built around warp points, and almost all SE strategy revolves around controlling chokepoints, this is not a Good Thing.
What I'm sayig is, if the retreat option is brought back (and even if it isn't, come to think about it) then you should ONLY be able to pass through a warp point if (A) there are no (visible) hostile forces in the sector OR (B) you can go into tactical or strategic combat and actually defeat/evade the enemy to fly your ship(s) into the warp point.

[Fyron]

Agreed, with a few modifications:
You can only retreat if you are faster than any enemy warships AND you are not in any enemy firing range AND you are at the edge of the map/not hemmed in by enemy ships. This Last clause might be hard to code, so instead of having a specific "retreat" button which may or may not be available at any given time, I have another suggestion- a "run like hell" button:

The idea was to only be able to retreat at the edge of the combat map. Makes no sense to be able to retreat if the enemy is firing at you... and if you are faster than the enemy, you will be able to get out of range of their guns and reach the edge of the map, if you ships are set to retreat orders.

A larger combat map (and a moddable size one) would indeed be a great addition.

[Baron Munchausen]

More important than just bringing retreat back, the AI has to use it properly. Enough with the suicidal aliens. We need some sort of 'morale' included in the AI so that crews will know when they are beaten and give up instead of attacking to the Last lifepod. Yes, it can get complex building 'motivation' into the game because you have to account for external circumstances. A battle to defend your homeworld against a genocidal foe is obviously far more likely to see the suicidal behavior we've become used to seeing from the SE AI than a battle for some warp point on the fringes of a huge empire. But that's what AI is for -- to make the computer seem to think like a 'real' person. We need a much smarter AI in combat as much as in game play.