PBW PvK Proportions Game #2

[PvK]

Well, in my mind, the multiplier and increased stats of the colonial facilities represent the many offices and labs helped by the well devleoped infrastructure.

It would seem odd that a homeworld would have lots of research labs, but not a single intelligence agency office anywhere, thats why it seems reasonable to have intel bonus as well.

I see. Yes, the homeworld and cities represent not only offices and infrastructure, but the many complex advantages of a livable environment, civilization, etc. Good luck getting your best scientists to be happy about shipping out and working on Outer Pudab VIII, in an office inside a pressure dome where the days are 20 years long, and the nearest civilization is months away by spaceship. Also, their ability to colaborate with their peers throughout the empire (without being intercepted) will be reduced.

The Cultural Centers do include intelligence agencies of some sort, represented by their intrinsic generation. Also it occurs to me that the larger a civilian presence on a colony, the easier it will be for agents to hide and observe things and plot and so on. So I see such facilities as a disadvantage to intel operations, as well as an advantage. That didn't used to seem representable in SE4, but maybe there is a way in 1.91. Hmm. Anyway I will take a look and see.

Not to mention game balance, as those who focus on intel could also benefit from these buildings then, not only those who focus on research.

Yes, though I find it interesting that Intel facilities are currently something that work about like they used to in the old game - if you put a lot of them on colonies, you can get strong intel forces, but especially in the preview 3.0, it makes sense to put them on the lesser-developed planets - covert bases and all that.

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I think there should be a bigger difference between spaceport Versions and normal ones

I don't see why. Spaceport Versions represent planning and co-location, not more developed urban facilities. The big advantage is they save you two slots on the planet, which can then be used for other things which can be helped by the urban facility's modifiers, etc. It requires longer to build them, though, and so there are planning and efficiency considerations, depending on what you build on the planet and in what order. But since you can have either one Spaceport City facility, or a Spaceport facility and a Resupply facility and a City facility, for essentially the same time and cost, and they represent the same things, only arranged differently, I don't see how it would make sense to give the Spaceport Cities much advantage in performance over a city. I just gave them a +1 or so to add a little detail/interest, to represent the slight effect of convenient colocation, desirability, attention, whatever.

PvK

[csebal]

[quote:PvK]

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I think there should be a bigger difference between spaceport Versions and normal ones

I don't see why. Spaceport Versions represent planning and co-location, not more developed urban facilities. The big advantage is they save you two slots on the planet, which can then be used for other things which can be helped by the urban facility's modifiers, etc. It requires longer to build them, though, and so there are planning and efficiency considerations, depending on what you build on the planet and in what order. But since you can have either one Spaceport City facility, or a Spaceport facility and a Resupply facility and a City facility, for essentially the same time and cost, and they represent the same things, only arranged differently, I don't see how it would make sense to give the Spaceport Cities much advantage in performance over a city. I just gave them a +1 or so to add a little detail/interest, to represent the slight effect of convenient colocation, desirability, attention, whatever.

PvK

[/quote]

Well, just take a look at the basic history and how ports affected economy, wars, trade, science, development, basically everything. A colony with a spaceport has the opportunity to become a major interstellar hub for traffic going trough the region.

Other than that, the offered services as well. In my modified Version (i alway modify everything i get my hands on, thats where all the stupid ideas come from ), minor spaceports only give spaceports, while everything above spaceport city (excluding city and major city) gives a resupply depo as well (they also have an increasing repair capacity). This is supposed to simulate the ability to deal with the supply / maintenance of passing ships.

of course, their price is significantly higher than the price of the normal facility.

[PvK]

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Well, just take a look at the basic history and how ports affected economy, wars, trade, science, development, basically everything. A colony with a spaceport has the opportunity to become a major interstellar hub for traffic going trough the region.
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Spaceport access is by planet (actually by system), not by facility. Without a spaceport, zero resources, research or intel points reach the empire.

You seem to be imagining Spaceport City as a very different thing than I am.

To me, a City on a colony with a Spaceport in the system has very nearly as good spaceport access as a Spaceport City. It's just a matter of useful/optimal space/infrastructure utilization. The Spaceport City is a City with a Spaceport integrated into it from the planning stage. The effect is on the number of slots used, which is really a major effect, without altering the generation or multipliers of the city at all.

In developing a colony on an alien planet, it seems to me there would be local details, both indigenous and evolutionary as the planet goes through stages of development, where it would be more or less efficient to build population and spaceports and infrastructure. The choice between building a Spaceport City first, or building spaceport and then a city, or other combinations at different times, abstractly represent those.

However you imagine it, though, it is pretty clear that having two extra facility slots on a planet is a major advantage, especially once a multiplier is in place. On the other hand, having a space port available immediately is also a big advantage.

Perhaps what you meant is that having a spaceport on a planet, as opposed to using a spaceport from some other planet, should have an advantage for that planet? In that case, that's something I hadn't really considered, and I do think that is a good point and would be something to work into the economics. It would add an (annoying ? ) decision about whether or not you should add space ports to every planet or not. I still wouldn't make it something special for Space Port Cities, but for all spaceports - add some planetary modifiers and/or production from all spaceports. Hmm.

PvK

[csebal]

My point is, that because spaceport Versions of colonial facilities only cost a little more than tha spaceportless one, it makes no sense to build those.

In my mind, the spaceported Version is a stepping stone towards the next bigger facility, and as such it should have a significantly increased price, and somewhat better stats (well, you are right in that the two extra facilities may be an advantage enough).

Anyway, what im arguing about is, that they should be placed further apart in price, making it actually a hard choice of what to build.